The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[Carl Spackler]

Oh no. Are you guys on the interwebz making fun of me again? Aw, I'm really sad. But answer me this. What are you going to say when I am right? Are you going to call me a "Football knowledge slurper" or a "Fact Slurper"

"Hey guys, look at TheRealDeal's post. He's using all those numbers and facts again. Who knew he'd be right all along. Anyway, let's pretend we were with him all along on his analysis"

Both of you say people can't judge Moore on 2 games and yet you do exactly that with Clausen. Seriously, can you just take your grease-stained Moore jerseys off? I like Matt Moore but your "facts" that are his solid ending to a SEASON COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THE PRESENT are poor fodder to prove why you think someone who lost out for a backup job to Josh McCown is better qualified to lead a team than a rookie. I urge you to sit in the end zone seats for one game, and watch the receivers. Clausen drops back, one runs a slant, it's covered. One a skinny post, it's covered. By the time he goes to his hot read, a tackle or guard has missed his block. At that point, what would you say he do? That was a common issue last week. If you can explain how Moore could somehow make something out of nothing in that regard (other than the exact opposite, which he's proven this year he can do) then please continue your onslaught of "knowledge."

[PantherFanForLife]

Both of you say people can't judge Moore on 2 games and yet you do exactly that with Clausen. Seriously, can you just take your grease-stained Moore jerseys off? I like Matt Moore but your "facts" that are his solid ending to a SEASON COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THE PRESENT are poor fodder to prove why you think someone who lost out for a backup job to Josh McCown is better qualified to lead a team than a rookie. I urge you to sit in the end zone seats for one game, and watch the receivers. Clausen drops back, one runs a slant, it's covered. One a skinny post, it's covered. By the time he goes to his hot read, a tackle or guard has missed his block. At that point, what would you say he do? That was a common issue last week. If you can explain how Moore could somehow make something out of nothing in that regard (other than the exact opposite, which he's proven this year he can do) then please continue your onslaught of "knowledge."

Actually no. We are judging Clausen based on 3 games as an NFL starter, which happens to be his ENTIRE NFL career. We need more time to get a better idea and truly pass judgement on him altogether but what he has shown so far does not impress nor does it justify the move to start him. If anything it proves it was a mistake and he was not ready.

You, on the other hand are NOT judging Matt on his ENTIRE NFL career as a starter. You are conveniently picking 2 games from this year, which also just so happen to be his WORST 2 games of his ENTIRE career.

That's the problem.

And Matt didn't just play good as a starter last year. He also did a better job as a rookie starter than Clausen is doing, back when he started in 2007 winning 2 out of his first 3 games with the Panthers as a starter. Granted he had a better team, but never the less, there are 3 stretches we have that we can judge Matt from.

You are conveniently choosing to judge him on the shortest period of his career, which is clearly his worst, and could very well be an isolated incident(in other words the other 2 times he got a shot he was a consistent winner) just because it's the most recent and it suits your argument.

Not to mention he hardly got any playing time during pre-season.

And please don't get me started on how awesome Clausen is. He's shown me suspect accuracy, missing receivers by a long shot, a problematic throwing mechanism, poor decisions by throwing directly in the arms of a defender two weeks in a row(he did it last week repeatedly and had his ball batted down(luckily did not get picked) and did it again this past week where Peppers picked him. He was unable to find Smith out of fear of throwing in danger zones and opted to only throw when a receiver is 100% open(which rarely happens in the NFL) other than that, he chooses to throw the ball away much too often without actually taking a shot. He has fumbled the ball quite a fewtimes, and has had a consistent problem dating back to pre-season on snaps. He drops the ball. In the first game it was the rain that gave him excuses. Now it's a lot more clear that's not the only thing affecting it.

On top of that, he is no more confident than Matt was judging by the reports coming out of our opponents calling him a QB with his eyes full of fear, talking to himself. And overall he seems less of a leader, which is something a lot of us were hoping he could provide this team. He has not. He's still a young boy trying to play amongst men.

[Carl Spackler]

Actually no. We are judging Clausen based on 3 games as an NFL starter, which happens to be his ENTIRE NFL career. We need more time to get a better idea and truly pass judgement on him altogether but what he has shown so far does not impress nor does it justify the move to start him. If anything it proves it was a mistake and he was not ready.

You, on the other hand are NOT judging Matt on his ENTIRE NFL career as a starter. You are conveniently picking 2 games from this year, which also just so happen to be his WORST 2 games of his ENTIRE career.

That's the problem.

And Matt didn't just play good as a starter last year. He also did a better job as a rookie starter than Clausen is doing, back when he started in 2007 winning 2 out of his first 3 games with the Panthers as a starter. Granted he had a better team, but never the less, there are 3 stretches we have that we can judge Matt from.

You are conveniently choosing to judge him on the shortest period of his career, which is clearly his worst, and could very well be an isolated incident(in other words the other 2 times he got a shot he was a consistent winner) just because it's the most recent and it suits your argument.

Not to mention he hardly got any playing time during pre-season.

And please don't get me started on how awesome Clausen is. He's shown me suspect accuracy, missing receivers by a long shot, a problematic throwing mechanism, poor decisions by throwing directly in the arms of a defender two weeks in a row(he did it last week repeatedly and had his ball batted down(luckily did not get picked) and did it again this past week where Peppers picked him. He was unable to find Smith out of fear of throwing in danger zones and opted to only throw when a receiver is 100% open(which rarely happens in the NFL) other than that, he chooses to throw the ball away much too often without actually taking a shot. He has fumbled the ball quite a fewtimes, and has had a consistent problem dating back to pre-season on snaps. He drops the ball. In the first game it was the rain that gave him excuses. Now it's a lot more clear that's not the only thing affecting it.

On top of that, he is no more confident than Matt was judging by the reports coming out of our opponents calling him a QB with his eyes full of fear, talking to himself. And overall he seems less of a leader, which is something a lot of us were hoping he could provide this team. He has not. He's still a young boy trying to play amongst men.

I'm not solely judging him on those 2 games...but I can tell you Clausen, while he has certainly miles of room for improvement, gives us the best chance to win. He is more of a leader than Moore because he's fiery and not so relaxed that no one is interested in hearing what he says. If I recall correctly an NYG DB said Moore was telegraphing his passes, and locked onto a receiver in the end zone and never looked away. They're not without their faults but I believe in my heart that Clausen is the right fit at quarterback. It will take more than one bad game to convince me otherwise.

[Humble Pie]

I hope your heart is right.

Clausen is 10x more comfortable outside the pocket. If Fox embraces that, then we have a chance. That will automatically reduce the number of batted down passes.

[PantherFanForLife]

I'm not solely judging him on those 2 games...but I can tell you Clausen, while he has certainly miles of room for improvement, gives us the best chance to win. He is more of a leader than Moore because he's fiery and not so relaxed that no one is interested in hearing what he says. If I recall correctly an NYG DB said Moore was telegraphing his passes, and locked onto a receiver in the end zone and never looked away. They're not without their faults but I believe in my heart that Clausen is the right fit at quarterback. It will take more than one bad game to convince me otherwise.

The rookie who is 0-3 gives us a better chance to win than the guy who is 6-4 and has more experience?

LOL!

[CRA]

we can agree to disagree but Moose pretty much stated this on fnz today. he said if you feel that clausen is your guy, givin where we are now that you play him and see if has what it takes , also said david carr wasn't wrecked cause of playing early in houston but that he just didn't have what it takes mentally to start in this league.

and I said I agree with that thought process........if you don't have a lame duck coach. Fox is gone though. Whose "guy" is he? All a new coach is going to see is a rookie who took steps backwards thanks to Fox.......they aren't gonna want that.

[CRA]

I hope your heart is right.

Clausen is 10x more comfortable outside the pocket. If Fox embraces that, then we have a chance. That will automatically reduce the number of batted down passes.

A play action offense doesn't work well if you allow your QB to scramble often. Every time Clausen bails....it kills the routes. You can have a designed rollout here and there.....but that is it.

[CRA]

I'm not solely judging him on those 2 games...but I can tell you Clausen, while he has certainly miles of room for improvement, gives us the best chance to win. He is more of a leader than Moore because he's fiery and not so relaxed that no one is interested in hearing what he says. If I recall correctly an NYG DB said Moore was telegraphing his passes, and locked onto a receiver in the end zone and never looked away. They're not without their faults but I believe in my heart that Clausen is the right fit at quarterback. It will take more than one bad game to convince me otherwise.

Clausen gives us the same best chance to win Delhomme did in 09. He doesn't.

Clausen isn't more of a leader than Moore. There is nothing to support that. All of season the vets said the team was becoming Moore's......Moore laid the foundation for that by proving he can play in the NFL.

Clausen as of right now doesn't fit. To fit you gotta stay in the pocket and be able to make throws. He bails or throws into defenders.

Clausen has had more than 1 bad game already.

[mj4life]

and I said I agree with that thought process........if you don't have a lame duck coach. Fox is gone though. Whose "guy" is he? All a new coach is going to see is a rookie who took steps backwards thanks to Fox.......they aren't gonna want that.

coaches & league insiders will see what we truly are right now(rebuilding)& therefore reserve judgement on clausen at first. IMO a new coach will bring in a veteran QB to back up clausen & start if needed. pike may enter into the equation at some point. JR is going to give whoever is coaching this team atleast 5 years to implement his preference on the roster unless we continue to go 3-13 or something like that so he will have plenty of time to weed out players he doesn't like

[CRA]

coaches & league insiders will see what we truly are right now(rebuilding)& therefore reserve judgement on clausen at first. IMO a new coach will bring in a veteran QB to back up clausen & start if needed. pike may enter into the equation at some point. JR is going to give whoever is coaching this team atleast 5 years to implement his preference on the roster unless we continue to go 3-13 or something like that

A new coach coming into Carolina.....is not going to want to start his career w/ a rookie that has been damaged. A new coach is more likely to bring in a vet to START. Clausen has been surprisngly bad given the hype. He is surprisingly bad with basics and mechanics. Clausen would have to make tremendous improvments for a new coach to have faith in this kid.

Fox should have waited to play this kid. In todays NFL you don't need 5 years. You are doing something wrong if that is the case.

[PantherFanForLife]

Oh and another thing, those saying that the only reason Moore did good before was that he was handing the ball off, are full of crap too.

You cannot explain these two games by that logic.

|_15_|MIN |W 26-7_| 21_ | 33 | 299 | 63.6_|9.06| 55 |_3 |_0 | 2.0_ |123.2 |-| 5_ | -2_ | -0.4| _1 | 0_|

|_16_|NYG|W_41-9_| 15_ | 20 | 171 | 75.0_|8.55| 27 |_3 |_0 | 1.0_ |139.8 |-| 4_ | _2_ | 0.5 | _5 | 0_|

A guy who throws for 300 yards, and has back to back games of 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions, completing 3/4 of his passes and scoring QB ratings of over 120...didn't achieve it by handing the ball over.

That's just propaganda. Not truth.

[mav1234]

dude, if Moore had put up anything even remotely close to that at the start of the season this wouldn't even be a discussion in the least... =|

[mj4life]

A new coach coming into Carolina.....is not going to want to start his career w/ a rookie that has been damaged. A new coach is more likely to bring in a vet to START. Clausen has been surprisngly bad given the hype. He is surprisingly bad with basics and mechanics. Clausen would have to make tremendous improvments for a new coach to have faith in this kid.

Fox should have waited to play this kid. In todays NFL you don't need 5 years. You are doing something wrong if that is the case.

that's where we disagree, i feel the new coach will be hired with the understanding that clausen is a part of the future until he shows beyond a shadow of a doubt otherwise. i'm not completely sold on clausen yet either & i'm not trying to make the case he is better than Moore right now, but the frontoffice is high on him so he will have amble opportunity to claim the job here. i i don't think it will take 5 years to win more so that JR won't pull the trigger quicj unless something goes real bad

[koolkatluke]

A new coach coming into Carolina.....is not going to want to start his career w/ a rookie that has been damaged. A new coach is more likely to bring in a vet to START. Clausen has been surprisngly bad given the hype. He is surprisingly bad with basics and mechanics. Clausen would have to make tremendous improvments for a new coach to have faith in this kid.

Fox should have waited to play this kid. In todays NFL you don't need 5 years. You are doing something wrong if that is the case.

Again if he can't handle it he wasn't meant to be our starter and will have a high enough pick for the new coach too get a QB he wants. Plain and simple.