The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[PantherFanForLife]

The game we came closest to winning was one jimmy started lol

And he was also the reason we didn't when he got sacked on 3rd down and put Kasey out of FG range for certain and then threw an incomplete on 4th down to seal the victory for the Saints.

[frash.exe]

And he was also the reason we didn't when he got sacked on 3rd down and put Kasey out of FG range for certain and then threw an incomplete on 4th down to seal the victory for the Saints.

...and matt didn't even get to that point this season, he didn't even play well enough to lose close. Jimmy at least did that.

[PantherFanForLife]

...and matt didn't even get to that point this season, he didn't even play well enough to lose close. Jimmy at least did that.

Yes he did. He deserves the respectable title of "Almost" for that one. He also managed to take the Panthers from a bad position of 0-2 to a hopeless position of 0-5. Surely he deserves some credit for that too.

[koolkatluke]

Once again, your lack for actually asessing the reality of the situation comes through. EVERY game we have played this year was winnable. EVERY game. In some it came down to just a couple of points or just a couple of plays.

We also been one play from getting blown out in every game. We are not a good team stop smoking please. We have only been in games because other teams have had their worst games of the year against us.

We have been one good play away from winning, and avoiding one bad play in order to win in almost all of our games, DESPITE how much suck there lies in our offense. The one thing this team needs as a whole to put up some numbers is a good game manager with some leadership and experience and to get it together a little bit.

If NO doesn't fumble at the Goalline we get Blown out.

If NYG and Manning doesn't have his worst game of the year we get Blown Out.

If Tampa wasn't as young as us we get blown out.

If it doesn't rain and Plamer doesn't have his worst game of the year we get blown out.

If the Bears have a better QB we get blown out.

Please put away your dreams of a top 3 pick. It ain't going to happen. We will win some games now with Matt under center.

So you would rather go3-13, 4-12, or 5-11 and not have a top 3 pick. Or better yet go 7-9 still not make the playoffs and still not have a top 3 pick and nothing too bulid on for next year.

And why should I leave? I'm not here to support Matt Moore like you keep implying. I'm here to support the Panthers. And considering Clausen just got benched, perhaps you and your little immature wannabe gang of QB "scouting experts" should now sit down too. I hear Mel Kiper is looking for some help hyping the next draft prospect.

These so call experts as you say still get paid and spend more time on this then you do. Your not a expert you don't get paid to do what they do. Get over it you can talk about them all you want but it's their job to do this.

For real dude what do you expect to happen before we go any further?

I'm not going to sit here talking to some idiot who thinks we win 11 games in a row because Moore is the starting QB now. So what do you expect to happen now?

[PantherFanForLife]

These so call experts as you say still get paid and spend more time on this then you do. Your not a expert you don't get paid to do what they do. Get over it you can talk about them all you want but it's their job to do this.

For real dude what do you expect to happen before we go any further?

I'm not going to sit here talking to some idiot who thinks we win 11 games in a row because Moore is the starting QB now. So what do you expect to happen now?

The "experts" I was reffering to was you and your fellow Clausen fans that did such a fine job at assessing Matt and Clausen's respective abilities as starting QB's. Hint: you were wrong about both. The jury may still be out on Matt as far as this season, but I at least was right about Clausen: he wasn't ready.

And still isn't.

Also you continue to invent arguments that I never make in order for you to make yourself look better. I never said I expect us to win 11 games this year just cause Matt's starting. However, I do expect to finish better than 29th which means this team will not get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick.

[koolkatluke]

The "experts" I was reffering to was you and your fellow Clausen fans that did such a fine job at assessing Matt and Clausen's respective abilities as starting QB's. Hint: you were wrong about both. The jury may still be out on Matt as far as this season, but I at least was right about Clausen: he wasn't ready.

You call us Clausen fans because we want too find out what he can do before we go to the draft and Luck is a option. So again I'm not a Clausen Fan I'm a fan of what's best for the panthers. I'm a fan of if we are going too lose anyway might as well be with the QB that for certain will be here next year. So yeah call me a Clausen fan.

And still isn't.

Also you continue to invent arguments that I never make in order for you to make yourself look better. I never said I expect us to win 11 games this year just cause Matt's starting. However, I do expect to finish better than 29th which means this team will not get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I didn't say that you thought we would win 11 games. I ask you what do you expect our record too be now that matt has the start. The 11 game thing was to let you know if that came out of your mouth this conversation is over. So anwser the question now that Matt is the starter what do you expect the ending record will be? Then we can continue.

[PantherFanForLife]

I didn't say that you thought we would win 11 games. I ask you what do you expect our record too be now that matt has the start. The 11 game thing was to let you know if that came out of your mouth this conversation is over. So anwser the question now that Matt is the starter what do you expect the ending record will be? Then we can continue.

You do realize I am a person of common sense and reason. How can you possibly ask me to make such a prediction when I haven't seen this team play at least 2 games with Matt back under center to see at least how we look?

So far I saw an attrocious team full of mistakes on both sides of the ball with Matt under center for 2 games.

Then I saw an attrocious offense full of green rookies with a rookie QB full of mistakes for 3 games.

I'd like to see what a more - no pun intended - together team with slightly more experience with a more experienced QB under center with something to prove looks like for a couple of games before I can asses our chances. At least ask me this after this Sunday when I can see how this unit plays with Matt.

[koolkatluke]

You do realize I am a person of common sense and reason. How can you possibly ask me to make such a prediction when I haven't seen this team play at least 2 games with Matt back under center to see at least how we look?

So far I saw an attrocious team full of mistakes on both sides of the ball with Matt under center for 2 games.

Then I saw an attrocious offense full of green rookies with a rookie QB full of mistakes for 3 games.

I'd like to see what a more - no pun intended - together team with slightly more experience with a more experienced QB under center with something to prove looks like for a couple of games before I can asses our chances. At least ask me this after this Sunday when I can see how this unit plays with Matt.

So is it going to be good for the team too look a little better with Moore still lose (maybe win 4-5 games) and ruin a chance too give the new coach a nice start with a top 3 pick.

[koolkatluke]

Plain and simple you would rather win 2 or 3 more games still not make the playoffs and not have a top 3 pick?

[PantherFanForLife]

plain and simple you would rather win 2 or 3 more games still not make the playoffs and not have a top 3 pick?

yes!

[Sandy Claws]

Ok first I just want to say, I'm ALL FOR CLAUSEN REMAINING THE STARTER for at least a few more games. You cannot judge him from 3 games alone. But I am so sick of so many people not knowing what the heck they are talking about when it comes to Moore, perfectly ok with judging him by the first 2 games of this season, but not the rest of his career here as a starter, and only looking at bullshit career stats that include him coming in for either 3 minutes, or a quarter, or replacing David Carr.....all the while making bullshit excuses for Clausen, especially for some mistakes that clearly go well beyond the whole "rookie" excuse.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________________Passing_____MATT MOORE_(Career Stats as Starter)_____Rushing___ _____

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_15_|SEA |W 13-10| 19_ | 27 | 208 | 70.4_|7.70| 54 |_0 |_0| 0.0_ |_92.8 |-| 2_ | _5_ | 2.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_16_|DAL |L _20-13| 15_ | 28 | 182 | 53.6_|6.50| 57 |_1 |_1 | 5.0_ |_70.8 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_17_| TB_|W 31-23| 15_ | 24 | 174 | 62.5_|7.25| 46 |_2 |_1 | 1.0_ |_94.8 |-| 1_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_13_| TB_|W 16-6_| 14_ | 20 | 161 | 70.0_|8.05| 66 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_73.1 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|_14_| NE_|L _20-10| 15_ | 30 | 197 | 50.0_|6.57| 44 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_82.2 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_15_|MIN |W 26-7_| 21_ | 33 | 299 | 63.6_|9.06| 55 |_3 |_0 | 2.0_ |123.2 |-| 5_ | -2_ | -0.4| _1 | 0_|

|_16_|NYG|W_41-9_| 15_ | 20 | 171 | 75.0_|8.55| 27 |_3 |_0 | 1.0_ |139.8 |-| 4_ | _2_ | 0.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_17_| NO |W 23-10| 14_ | 23 | 162 | 60.9_|7.04| 30 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_96.6 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|__1_|NYG|L_ 31-18| 14_ | 33 | 182 | 42.4_|5.52| 27 |_1 |_3 | 4.0_ |_32.6 |-| 2_ | 15_ | 7.5 | _8 | 0_|

|__2_| TB |L_ 20-7_| _6_ | 16 | 125 | 37.5_|7.81| 37 |_1 |_1 | 4.0_ |_60.7 |-| 1_ | _2_ | 2.0 | _2 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals___________________________________________

|_10_|ALL |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115 | 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_ | 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

__________________________________Totals_(Pre - 2010)_______________________________

|__8_|ALL |__ 6-2_ | 128 |205|1808 | 62.4_|8.81| 66 |11 | 3 |1.8avg|_96.7 |-| 14 | _3_ | 0.2 | _8 | 0_|

_____________________________________________________________________________

___________________Passing__ __JIMMY CLAUSEN_(Career Stats as Starter)____Rushing________

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|__3_| CIN |L _20-7 | 16_ | 33 | 188 | 48.5_|5.70| 44 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_53.6 |-| 6_ | 10_ | 1.7 | _5 | 0_|

|__4_|_NO |L _16-14| 11_ | 21 | 146 | 52.4_|6.95| 55 |_1 |_0 | 3.0_ |_90.6 |-| 2_ | 11_ | 5.5 | _6 | 0_|

|__5_| CHI |L _23-6 | _9_ | 22 | _61 | 40.9_|2.77| 16 |_0 |_1 | 5.0_ |_29.7 |-| 2_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals__________________________________________

|__3_|ALL |__ 0-3_ | _36 |_76|_495 | 47.4_|6.51| 55 |_1 | 2 |3.0avg|_ 58.0 |-| 10 | 21_ | 2.1 | _6 | 0_|

______________________________________________________________________________

_________________Passing_________Totals: Moore vs Clausen_________Rushing______________

|game|opp|result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_10_|ALL_ |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115| 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_| 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

|__3_|ALL_ |__ 0-3_ | _36 |_76|_495| 47.4_|6.51| 55 |_1 | 2 |3.0avg|_58.0 |-| 10 | 21_| 2.1 | _6 | 0_|

So here are the facts.

-Matt has only played a total of 10 games as a starter, 10 complete games, and only 10 games you can really judge him by.

-In those 10 games he:

1. Went 6-4(including the 2 losses from this year, else he is 6-2!).

2. Had a 3 game winning streak.

3. Has had back to back games throwing 3 touchdowns and no pics with a QB rating of over 120.

4. He threw 13 touchdowns and 7 pics. More than half his pics came from the 2 games this year.

5. He had a 4 game streak of throwing 0 pics.

8. His second game as a rookie in 07 was tough and much like Jimmy Sunday got little help from the O-line. He was sacked 5 times. But he still put up a better completion %, better rating, and scored a touchdown.

9. He has consistently completed over 50% of his passes and thrown for 300 yards before.

10. The two worst games of his career as a starter were the 2 games he played this year.

If you actually look at Moore stats overall as a starter, he's actually pretty freaking decent. He's no Manning, but he's a winner. If you give him the benefit of the doubt of just having 2 bad opening games with this circus of a team, then it gets even better when you take them out of the equation. But I know....no one ever considers Matt could have had a couple of bad games. Everyone is perfectly fine with judging him by the 2 worst games of his career as a starter.

Whatever.

If Clausen stinks it up for the next 3-4 games, no reason Matt should not get a chance to try and finish HIS season. Jimmy would then go back on the bench and earn the job by proving over and over in practice he is the better man, like he should have in the first place. If he really is that good, then he should have nothing to worry about.

Having said that, please STFU with this talk about how attrocious Matt is. Again I am all for consistency and believe Jimmy should stay as a starter. But honestly, tell me again why Matt shouldn't come back looking at his record if Clausen doesn't improve? What's there to justify in that one?

Maybe you should do the same comparison but stick to equal circumstances. In other words, limit yourself to games played with the current roster. It doesn't matter what Moore did the last 2 years when he had a quasi #2 wr. What has he done with this team? The immediate answer is less than Claussen.

[PantherFanForLife]

Maybe you should do the same comparison but stick to equal circumstances. In other words, limit yourself to games played with the current roster. It doesn't matter what Moore did the last 2 years when he had a quasi #2 wr. What has he done with this team? The immediate answer is less than Claussen.

In that case you can never compare anyone and you will have to wait until Matt has 3 games under his belt this season. This offense and this team has been different every game this season. And teams play different every Sunday. Good teams sometimes play worse than the worst teams. Bad teams sometimes play better than the greats. You can never have equal constants with the exception of the QB from week to week.

QB's have always been compared based on their starts stats across teams, divisions and different leagues. There is always variance. They ALL have variance. It evens itself out in the long run.

And those stats were not posted so much to compare Jimmy with Moore. But to shut the idiots up that keep talking about how Matt Moore is attrocious.

[koolkatluke]

yes!

This is why your not a panther fan.

[Sandy Claws]

QB's have always been compared based on their starts stats across teams, divisions and different leagues. There is always variance. They ALL have variance. It evens itself out in the long run.

And those stats were not posted so much to compare Jimmy with Moore. But to shut the idiots up that keep talking about how Matt Moore is attrocious.

QBs et evaluated that way by people who want the decision made by a surface look. If you really want to dive into an analysis, you have to look deeper, into their perfromance in different situations. Answer the questions like why is QB A's passer rating so much worse when throwing left? Why does QB B take such a higher percentage of sacks? SUre there will always be soem variables but you get closer to a solution by liniting them as much as possible. THrowing everything into a big pot and them looking will accomplish nothing but allow folks to twist the interpretations to suit themselves.