The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[koolkatluke]

Pretty sure "you" and "he" are different words but ok. I will change my wording. There are certain things I feel every player should learn in practice. Since we were discussing QBs I listed things I feel they should learn in practice. While yes defenders will try to affect their throwing motion or how they throw a route, I think the QB must make an adjustment based on how the defenders are playing. I don't think the QB should be learning those things while in the game. To me, making an adjustment is what you learn in games, learning the things I listed should happen in practice.

Dude why are you in this thread if you don't know who you, I, and every other poster were talking about.

Seriously dude you don't learn without trial and error during game time.

Jimmy already knows how to make all the throws he knows all the routes wr run. He has pocket present. he know what a hot route is and when too use one. He knows how too spot man on man and zone coverage. He has taken 100,000 snaps under center. He knows the different formation the def can be in. Those are the "basics". Jimmy problems are thinking too much instead of reacting getting timing down with his wr catching up to the speed of the pro game and time mang. All you only learn while playing during real game situation.

[chef17]

Dude why are you in this thread if you don't know who you, I, and every other poster were talking about.

Seriously dude you don't learn without trial and error during game time.

Jimmy already knows how to make all the throws he knows all the routes wr run. He has pocket present. he know what a hot route is and when too use one. He knows how too spot man on man and zone coverage. He has taken 100,000 snaps under center. He knows the different formation the def can be in. Those are the "basics". Jimmy problems are thinking too much instead of reacting getting timing down with his wr catching up to the speed of the pro game and time mang. All you only learn while playing during real game situation.

I know that you were talking about Jimmy. I however, never said anything about him. You made a post about learning basics in games. I replied with what I think all QBs should learn in practice. Sorry I didn't make a completely different thread to debate what we feel a QB should learn in practice.

[koolkatluke]

I know that you were talking about Jimmy. I however, never said anything about him. You made a post about learning basics in games. I replied with what I think all QBs should learn in practice. Sorry I didn't make a completely different thread to debate what we feel a QB should learn in practice.

Then we can agree on this Jimmy already know the basics.

A pop warner and Highschool QB needs too work on what you are talking about by the time they are pros they should already know the basics.

Like by the time a LB is in the pros he should know how too tackle.

[PantherFanForLife]

Was not comparing Brett to Jimmy don't really know how and why that was even and issue to you but that's the poo you do too help your argument.

I was only saying that even the best fumble snaps. Brady does so does Peyton.

Thank you for expressing my point though no game is the same and a QB learn by trial and error thank you.

It doesn't. Most QBs did not become ELITE simply by learning through trial and error.

Dude like I explained before, it doesn't matter what kind of skill you perform in life. I'm a guitarist, these guys are NFL players. Others are circus performers. Doesn't matter. Anything that requires skill also requires lots and lots of practice to be great during the show. Those skills are based on a set of principles, techniques, and rules. Those have to be practiced religiously.

Coming from college to NFL requires that you learn an entire new set of skills, unlearn a bunch of skills that no longer apply, and re-vamp others. You cannot get there simply by getting live game experience.

Here's an example:

Just take the act of completing a pass. Jimmy would at least need Steve Smith for him to get better. You at least need one receiver that's doing his job professionally in order for you to attempt to synch up to him as a QB, professionally. Rookie QB + rookie receivers in a live NFL game = disaster, NOT, improvement.

It's like this. If a receiver runs the route like he is supposed to and goes through the motions 9-10 times correctly and you are either short, long, or off 4-5 times then you know what you have to do: Improve your accuracy. If a receiver runs his route right only 2-10 times, and at the same time you only throw it right 4 out of 10 times...the likelyhood of you ever synching up are slim to none. You learn NOTHING and the majority of your passes are simply a waste. Which is basically what's been going on.

In the end you are confusing two things. No one here is saying you don't get experience from game time and you don't learn something each and every game. What we're saying is you have have the basics down, in order for those games to provide you with a meaningful, effective learning experience. You don't learn the variations first and then the basics later. It's the other way around. You learn the basics, THEN you build on it by playing live.

[chef17]

Then we can agree on this Jimmy already know the basics.

A pop warner and Highschool QB needs too work on what you are talking about by the time they are pros they should already know the basics.

Like by the time a LB is in the pros he should know how too tackle.

I obviously have no idea what the basics are as you have claimed mutlitple times so I can't agree on whether Jimmy already knows the basics. And in my opinion a highschool QB should know the things you listed as well so I fail to see how the things you listed are basics but mine aren't but oh well. I will just agree to disagree and move on.

[koolkatluke]

It doesn't. Most QBs did not become ELITE simply by learning through trial and error.

What do you mean by most if we go down the list of HOF QB how many do you think started from the get go and How many sat their 1st few years?

I'm willing too bet more great QB learn by starting their 1st year then sitting.

Dude like I explained before, it doesn't matter what kind of skill you perform in life. I'm a guitarist, these guys are NFL players. Others are circus performers. Doesn't matter. Anything that requires skill also requires lots and lots of practice to be great during the show. Those skills are based on a set of principles, techniques, and rules. Those have to be practiced religiously.

You don't have know body smacking you while you play or throwing a beer bottle at you. Guitar piano drums are stuff you can practice because nobody trying too change what you are doing. You don't have too make adjustments in the way you play during a show. Unless you get hurt during but then the show is over.

Coming from college to NFL requires that you learn an entire new set of skills, unlearn a bunch of skills that no longer apply, and re-vamp others. You cannot get there simply by getting live game experience.

1st you don't know if you have too change unless you play when real bullets are flying.

2nd How do you know if the re-vamp will work unless you play? Just because you beat Gamble in practice doesn't mean you'll beat Revis on sunday.

Here's an example:

Just take the act of completing a pass. Jimmy would at least need Steve Smith for him to get better. You at least need one receiver that's doing his job professionally in order for you to attempt to synch up to him as a QB, professionally. Rookie QB + rookie receivers in a live NFL game = disaster, NOT, improvement.

Right because Tom brady won a superbowl with Randy Moss????

Or he needed a star wr too learn how too pass??? Who was the wr his rookie season again???

While your at it can you tell me what wr's taught ELWAY, MOON,SIMS, and Kosar how too pass their rookies season please?

It's like this. If a receiver runs the route like he is supposed to and goes through the motions 9-10 times correctly and you are either short, long, or off 4-5 times then you know what you have to do: Improve your accuracy. If a receiver runs his route right only 2-10 times, and at the same time you only throw it right 4 out of 10 times...the likelyhood of you ever synching up are slim to none. You learn NOTHING and the majority of your passes are simply a waste. Which is basically what's been going on.

In the end you are confusing two things. No one here is saying you don't get experience from game time and you don't learn something each and every game. What we're saying is you have have the basics down, in order for those games to provide you with a meaningful, effective learning experience. You don't learn the variations first and then the basics later. It's the other way around. You learn the basics, THEN you build on it by playing live.

Dude you don't have a clue of what you are talking about you don't know what the basics of being a QB are. Just stick too what you know best keep playing your guitar. The people who GET PAID TO KNOW WHAT THE BASICS OF QBing is thinks Jimmy is ready too put what he knows on the field.

Most improtant part of this statment is They get paid you don't.

[koolkatluke]

Plain and simple (and I'm going too bed after this is) Jimmy problem have nothing too do with the "BASICS" of QBing.

His problem have too deal with being a rookie in the Nfl playing the hardest and most visible position too transfer from college to pros and be successful.

Catching up with the speed of the game and the defenders he has too see week after week. Their are not too many Vilmas at Navy.

Audibles and reacting to changes in coverage a PRO defense can make 4 times before you even snap the ball.

Building timing and realationships with his wr. Which can happen in practice

but tested and perfected in real game action.

Being able too read the field faster and not stair down wr. ONLY with real game speed.

Being able to sell better play action fakes. Only with real game speed.

All rookies have these problem coming into the league they only get better by playing.

Sorry if it hurts Matty but maybe you can go be a fan of the team who signs him after the season. JMO he will get another chance it just won't be here.

[CRA]

Then we will disagree you don't learn how too be a QB by flim study and pratice alone. You can't learn how too get your pass over a jumping Dlinemen on the bench. You learn how too take a snap while the real bullets are flying. If you are not mentaly tough for the job you don't need too do the job.

I use Peyton and Aikman because other will keep use David Carr and Ryan Leaf as examples. If you can use the worst QB too say why you don't put a QB in early why can't i use 2 of the best that got beaten up and lost alot their rookie season like Carr but instead of curling up into a ball they rose to the challege. That's what we need too see from Jimmy either he flys or falls. It could mean a quick turn around or a few bad years trying to figure out what we can do now.

but no one is making the argument you only learn from practice. and yes, you can work on basics like snaps, low balls, pocket awareness (staying in), etc. in practice.....

there are a lot more David Carr's than Peytons.

[koolkatluke]

but no one is making the argument you only learn from practice. and yes, you can work on basics like snaps, low balls, pocket awareness (staying in), etc. in practice.....

there are a lot more David Carr's than Peytons.

Your right because alot of people aren't made too be starting NFL QB their maybe 64 at the most in the whole world..

But Again alot more successful QB played their rookie season and learned the game as live bullets were flying at them then not.

Sitting a young QB is done when you have a vet QB who can hold the fort down and get wins while he teaches the young QB. Or atleast the young QB can watch him making good plays. That wasn't happen. So as the season is lost you might as well get the QB who is going too be here the best coach a QB can have LIVE ACTION.

[CRA]

Your right because alot of people aren't made too be starting NFL QB their maybe 64 at the most in the whole world..

But Again alot more successful QB played their rookie season and learned the game as live bullets were flying at them then not.

Sitting a young QB is done when you have a vet QB who can hold the fort down and get wins while he teaches the young QB. Or atleast the young QB can watch him making good plays. That wasn't happen. So as the season is lost you might as well get the QB who is going too be here the best coach a QB can have LIVE ACTION.

I don't follow your first sentence....

most successful QBs who played as rookies did so on good teams where coaches could limit their exposure. Most QBs thrown out there early like Jimmy...on bad teams....don't make it in this league.

that is just going off history in the NFL. Peyton is an exception.

[The Saltman]

this shiitty thread keeps going doesn't it?

[rayzor]

this shiitty thread keeps going doesn't it?

yeah, i pop my head in every once in a while just to make sure that dead horse is getting beat up. yep.

[PantherFanForLife]

Dude you don't have a clue of what you are talking about you don't know what the basics of being a QB are. Just stick too what you know best keep playing your guitar. The people who GET PAID TO KNOW WHAT THE BASICS OF QBing is thinks Jimmy is ready too put what he knows on the field.

Most improtant part of this statment is They get paid you don't.

Whatever dude. You don't need to be a coach in order to see Jimmy does NOT have the BASICS down in the NFL yet..

Handling snaps, clock management, scanning your entire field, throwing mechanism, passing comfortably in all areas of a field(not just sidelines or short) are all part of the basics. All of those things are things you would expect even an AVERAGE NFL QB to be able to do fairly well when he takes the field.

Your argument sounds ridiculous because it basically boils down to this: "Jimmy should continue to get live play during the regular season because it gives him a good opportunity to learn the basics week after week".

Say what?

Uhmmm....no. If you don't have down at least the basics, you don't need to be out there. Period.

[PantherFanForLife]

yeah, i pop my head in every once in a while just to make sure that dead horse is getting beat up. yep.

Thanks for dropping by, don't let the door hit ya on your way out.