The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[PantherFanForLife]

This year.. How many freaking times do I gotta keep saying this poo. I GET Matt had 2 bad games this year. Do you? But Matt as a career starter is 6-4. As a starter he has 13 touchdowns and 7 pics. Take away the two games from this year and he is 11-3 over the span of 8 games which is 4 times as long a sample as the one you keep judging him by.

All you are proving is that more than HALF of his interceptions as a starter in his ENTIRE career came from the first 2 games of this year. All you are proving are that the 2 games from this year is the WORST Matt has EVER played as a starter with this franchise.

And I'll I'm trying to tell you, is that 2 games is not enough to judge a guy. And if you are going to do it...at least judge him by the entire 10. In which case he is a WINNER. 6-4. Versus a rookie who right now is 0-3. Matt was also a winner as a rookie. He was 2-1. As a rookie in 2007.

[PantherFanForLife]

You can really only count 1 of Moore's TDs if you're throwing out Clausen's. One of Moore's was a "freak play" in which a short pass got taken all the way because of poor defensive play - same reason Stewie had his TD.

Clausen definitely does play it safe, but he does still have some deep passes (including 2 > 40, which Moore has none of yet). They are both averaging ABYSMAL YPA, so don't act like Moore is doing far better (5.8 IS better than 5, but by... less than a yard. Both are very bad.)

Ok again: this year. You are only judging Matt based on the stats from this year to pass judgement on him as a player. That is wrong.

You cannot say Matt would have still averaged 5.8 ypa 5 games later because we can all go to ESPN, pull up his stats, and see that as a starter he's averaged 8.32. Do I know he could do that with this team this year? No. I don't. I know he couldn't do it over a 2 game span. But I also know Jimmy can't over a 3 game span.

[koolkatluke]

You do know Jimmy couldn't hit the best receiver we have right? You do know 80% of Jimmy's passes were short, or most on the sidelines, targeting anyone that was open "safe" which usually meant close to the line of scrimmage and no significant gain. If that was not an option, he threw it away every time, beyond what is typically considered "good play". You do realize despite the interceptions, Matt scored legitimate touchdowns with our best receiver. You do realize Jimmy's only touchdown came on a freak play, that was thanks to Stewart being unaccounted for and WIIIIIIIDE open? You do realize he only has 1 in 3 games, right?

And I also hope you do realize our new receivers had 2 games and 2 weeks of tape to review to at least get their feet wet before receiving ANY passes from Jimmy under a real NFL gameday situation. Matt got the worst of those guys and that offense.

Matt has also been playing and had pratice time with our best wr for 4 Years!!! Jimmy had what a month maybe??? Matt has been in this system with this coaching staff playing with pro speed and timing for 4 YEARS!!!!

Not only should Matt be better he should be WAY BETTER!!!! But he is not stats says they he's not game flim says that he's not coaches and talking heads says that he's not.

If the comparison is close at all tie goes too the rookie with more upside and a longer contract.

Not too mention Jimmy has gone up against Bengals (with a top notch secondary) in the rain. The defending Champs at their house and the Bears top 10 defense (with a hyped up Pep and no steve smith). Matt went against a depeleted NYG team secondary and The rebuilt Bucs. Who had the harder road the rookie or the 4 year vet who should be better?

[mav1234]

Ok again: this year. You are only judging Matt based on the stats from this year to pass judgement on him as a player. That is wrong.

You cannot say Matt would have still averaged 5.8 ypa 5 games later because we can all go to ESPN, pull up his stats, and see that as a starter he's averaged 8.32. Do I know he could do that with this team this year? No. I don't. I know he couldn't do it over a 2 game span. But I also know Jimmy can't over a 3 game span.

No dude.

I'm not judging him as a player.

I'm judging him as a quarterback in this offense.

I'm not saying Moore is a bust. I'm not saying he won't go some place else and light it up. All I'm saying is that in this system right now, he can't get it done. You can say the same of Clausen if you want, but ultimately, Clausen has the excuse that he's a rookie. Moore doesn't.

That's all I'm saying. No matter what metric you use, Moore is not getting it done this year. He is struggling this year by the very definition of it. I have all the hope in the world that he turns it around and shows off to someone what he can do because I have enjoyed watching the games he's won for us. I just don't think he can get it done this year based on what we've seen so far.

[koolkatluke]

DUDE you can only compare this year stat with these 2 players.

They both played with the same

OLINE

Coaches

WR

stadium

RB

TE

same system

same play calls

same defense

same speed of the game

the only difference is Matt had 4 years with most of these things while Jimmy only 5-6 months.

[PantherFanForLife]

Matt has also been playing and had pratice time with our best wr for 4 Years!!! Jimmy had what a month maybe??? Matt has been in this system with this coaching staff playing with pro speed and timing for 4 YEARS!!!!

Not only should Matt be better he should be WAY BETTER!!!! But he is not stats says they he's not game flim says that he's not coaches and talking heads says that he's not.

If the comparison is close at all tie goes too the rookie with more upside and a longer contract.

Not too mention Jimmy has gone up against Bengals (with a top notch secondary) in the rain. The defending Champs at their house and the Bears top 10 defense (with a hyped up Pep and no steve smith). Matt went against a depeleted NYG team secondary and The rebuilt Bucs. Who had the harder road the rookie or the 4 year vet who should be better?

Except that once again when you look at the facts, your argument falls apart:

2007 against Dallas. Matt's second game as a rookie starter with the Carolina Panthers:

Steve Smith 9 receptions for 137 yards and a touchdown. Long 57 yards.

Oh and not to mention BOTH the Bengals and the Bears basically HANDED the game over to Clausen, and he still managed to have a 0 rating against the Bengals in the first half and 6 rating against the Bear.

Wow.....he's certainly showing the "potential" that we would never get from Matt. Yeah...that's the future right there.

[mav1234]

What week was that game? How many passes had he thrown before it in live games?

You're comparing someone coming in during a very late game who has been practicing with the players for a bit, and has thrown passes to them during the year already before it, and working in an offense that is finally clicking at that point, something the Panthers aren't really ahving right now.

Sure, some will say Moore is washed up, but the majority of us will just say he isn't getting it done this year, and that's that. No poo he did well in the past or he wouldn't be here... that doesn't guarantee he'll do well in the future, and when the most recent past shows us poor showings, well... We go with the person with the excuses for the poor showings.

[PantherFanForLife]

Yeah right.....the coach has been activating and de-activating players every other game this year. There has been NO consistency in the game plan, players or coaching. And Matt, was in the most questionable and unkown situation with him getting the first 2 games. And the speed of the game? Both the Bengals game and the Bears games were a joke and we still could not win them. Our defense played like freaking champs.

Against Tampa our defense was being beat and outrun by a freaking QB.

[koolkatluke]

Except that once again when you look at the facts, your argument falls apart:

2007 against Dallas. Matt's second game as a rookie starter with the Carolina Panthers:

Steve Smith 9 receptions for 137 yards and a touchdown. Long 57 yards.

Oh and not to mention BOTH the Bengals and the Bears basically HANDED the game over to Clausen, and he still managed to have a 0 rating against the Bengals in the first half and 6 rating against the Bear.

Wow.....he's certainly showing the "potential" that we would never get from Matt. Yeah...that's the future right there.

No you failed Steve didn't miss the whole pre season with a broken arm. Plus the game was like 10th or 11th game of that season not the 3rd or 4th. The running game and the oline were playing better then they are now and nobody had flim on Matt then either. But once again you go back too past success to compare 2 player who are playing with the same poo now. Matt should be blowing Jimmy out the water but your problem and the teams problem is he's NOT!!!!!!

[mav1234]

Do you really think our game plan has changed? I don't know, but it seems to be the same it's been for about four years. Maybe I'm missing the subtleties of it.

eh... about the Bengals, our D played well, but it's not as if the Bucs tore up our D and the Bengals didn't do anything. Bengals had the same number of points, more yards, and more time of possession. in the first half though, the bengals did try to give the game to us, that's for sure.

[PantherFanForLife]

What week was that game? How many passes had he thrown before it in live games?

You're comparing someone coming in during a very late game who has been practicing with the players for a bit, and has thrown passes to them during the year already before it, and working in an offense that is finally clicking at that point, something the Panthers aren't really ahving right now.

Sure, some will say Moore is washed up, but the majority of us will just say he isn't getting it done this year, and that's that. No poo he did well in the past or he wouldn't be here... that doesn't guarantee he'll do well in the future, and when the most recent past shows us poor showings, well... We go with the person with the excuses for the poor showings.

Which says it all doesn't it? Jimmy had no business being in the game this early in the season.

But you need to check your facts.

Matt was signed off waivers in September 07 from the Cowboys. He didn't even go through training camp with the Panthers that year. And when you add all the live game time together, he still had LESS live experience at that point than Clausen does right now with this team.

[koolkatluke]

What game were you watching the bears were up 14 -3 and the panthers offense had only been on the field for 1 drive.

Atleast we were still in the game with the giants in the 4th. Or untill Matt start throwing in too triple coverage 3 times in the red zone.

The bengals game was winnable but the Def. had a hand in that if they could catch 2 of 8 int chance we win that game. Not too mention the fuging rain storm which would be a problem for any QB ask Brett farve.

[PantherFanForLife]

Do you really think our game plan has changed? I don't know, but it seems to be the same it's been for about four years. Maybe I'm missing the subtleties of it.

eh... about the Bengals, our D played well, but it's not as if the Bucs tore up our D and the Bengals didn't do anything. Bengals had the same number of points, more yards, and more time of possession. in the first half though, the bengals did try to give the game to us, that's for sure.

I don't think it changed. I KNOW it changed. I saw it change every week. Didn't you? One week we are passing on 1st and goal. The next we're running. One week we are going for it on 4th down the next we let time run out when we are down before half. One week we hand it off to our running backs, the next we are using AE in wildcat position. Again, 0 consitency. Every game this year has been one experiment after another.

[mav1234]

I don't need to check my facts. He has less live experience, but he was throwing passes around in the first couple months of live games. I was watching the games, I remember them. I also remember the fact he was getting reps thrown at him all over the place through that season because our QB situation was so dire. The idea that he came in out of nowhere and just started bombing them to Smith is inaccurate and needs to be corrected. In his first throws as a Panther he was unimpressive.

Comparing his first starts to Clausen's are just silly. Whether Clausen SHOULD have started or not is irrelevant. He did... and the fact remains he played as well as a 4 year pro did, which is most telling about how poor our offense is.