The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[PantherFanForLife]

Dude I'm sorry your not getting this.

Jimmy = Rookie = 4 year deal = drafted = making more money= more room for error.

Moore = 4year pro= 1 year deal = picked up off waviers = less money= older = less room for error.

Plain and simple I know it hurts and it sucks for Matt but that's how it was set up.

Matt had too play like brady too keep his job he didn't move on.

Older as in 26, more experienced and about the right age to lead an NFL team versus not old enough to know how to wear an NFL jockstrap and having your opponents feel bad about how sorry and lost you are?

You know what dude, I'm not sweating it because despite the fact that I think this organization is run by monkeys I still do not see Clausen being the starter past game 8 if he doesn't step up his playing. And they will turn to Matt because believe it or not....we do want to at least find out how the rest of these receivers are by the end of the year, so I highly doubt they will waste it all on Clausen. They are not THAT retarded. They will either bring in a vet, put Matt back in, or give someone else a chance. The fact that FOX chose to put Matt back in last week, shows that they are not against that move.

PS: More money usually means we EXPECT more not less from a guy.

[mav1234]

Yes actually I'm really going to sit here and tell you that I have more sense to judge ANY guy by one or two games. If Matt comes in and wins us one, I will be happy, but I will wait until he has more wins than losses before I pass further judgement. Something I can't say for many on here.

Oh and one more time. Last week showed nothing. Get out of here with that garbage.

I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't celebrate if Moore had thrown a TD or two last week and not turned over the ball.

Hell, I would have. I would been very happy, because I want Moore to be "that guy." But he's not this season. Those two drives follow a consistent pattern of inability to take care of the ball.

I also don't believe that if Moore came in and won a game and had a good game you'd be like, "Well, let's wait and see. We can't be sure of what we have of him yet!!" since you seem absolutely positive that what we have seen of him this year is not indicative of the player he really is. If you would, my hats off to you. I am more of a reactionary fan than you are, and probably more judgmental.

You can't keep dismissing playing time because it was late in a game. It's not like it'll be the deciding point on whether he starts or not, but you have to consider it when evaluating the guy. When the game was turned over to him, he did nothing positive with it. Again. That's a negative, whether you like it or not.

[mav1234]

Agree with most of what you are posting, Koolkatluke, but...

Matt had too play like brady too keep his job he didn't move on.

totally disagree. Matt just had to not play like Jake Delhomme of 2009 to keep his job.

[PantherFanForLife]

Agree with most of what you are posting, Koolkatluke, but...

totally disagree. Matt just had to not play like Jake Delhomme of 2009 to keep his job.

And I disagree with that. No matter how decent Matt was going to play, Clausen would have been on that field this year. That much was obvious from the moment we drafted him. People wanted to see the kid play. I EVEN wanted to see him play. The pressure was on the organization to put him out there or risk losing ticket sales and public outlash.

Matt was in a doomed if you do, doomed if you don't scenario. The only question was the time-frame and the situation.

[koolkatluke]

Agree with most of what you are posting, Koolkatluke, but...

totally disagree. Matt just had to not play like Jake Delhomme of 2009 to keep his job.

Ok I'll agree with that but one difference is Matt was not only playing for his job he was playing for Fox's job too. It would have taken a brady or Kurt Warner like effort too save both of them this year. He had too be more then a game mang. Even in 2009 Jake had the past history too have a few bad games. Matt didn't .

[mav1234]

And I disagree with that. No matter how decent Matt was going to play, Clausen would have been on that field this year. That much was obvious from the moment we drafted him. People wanted to see the kid play. I EVEN wanted to see him play. The pressure was on the organization to put him out there or risk losing ticket sales and public outlash.

Matt was in a doomed if you do, doomed if you don't scenario. The only question was the time-frame and the situation.

I can guarantee you that if this team was competitive and in the playoff hunt and Moore was playing decently (but not necessarily Brady/Manning-Esque, even just maintaining his career average of like a 80 QB rating or whatever the hell it was), Fox would not have let Clausen start. Period. Fox could not keep Clausen off the field because Moore's first starts were eerily familiar.

Clausen may have gotten garbage time in games we had put away, but Moore would have been the starter all the way through the playoffs etc.

edit: koolkatluke, you're right there... since I think we woulda needed Moore to play at that level to get us past the first round of the playoffs, where I think we'd need to be for JR to really try hard to bring Fox back.

edit2: by not start "period" I mean in any game that starters aren't just resting in anyway. aka, if with Moore we go 14-1, I bet we sit him in our 16th game ;P but yeah. you know what I mean. If we're still playing for something, Moore is playing unless they think that he isn't giving us the best chance to win. playing himself out of the job.

[PantherFanForLife]

I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't celebrate if Moore had thrown a TD or two last week and not turned over the ball.

Hell, I would have. I would been very happy, because I want Moore to be "that guy." But he's not this season. Those two drives follow a consistent pattern of inability to take care of the ball.

I also don't believe that if Moore came in and won a game and had a good game you'd be like, "Well, let's wait and see. We can't be sure of what we have of him yet!!" since you seem absolutely positive that what we have seen of him this year is not indicative of the player he really is. If you would, my hats off to you. I am more of a reactionary fan than you are, and probably more judgmental.

You can't keep dismissing playing time because it was late in a game. It's not like it'll be the deciding point on whether he starts or not, but you have to consider it when evaluating the guy. When the game was turned over to him, he did nothing positive with it. Again. That's a negative, whether you like it or not.

Dude there is a big difference between celebrating a touchdown...and judging a QB based on one drive, a touchdown, or 3 minutes of play. That is actually what my entire argument is based on.

You need to look at the WHOLE picture.

And for your last point.....you are taking things out of context with his last play. Everyone and his mother saw a pass bouncing off the receivers arm, and the other one an attempt to purposely risk an interception but try to get a TD. That's about the ONLY chance Matt had and he did in fact make the CORRECT decision in that situation: which was to throw it up for grabs in the endzone. 9 out of 10 times that pass gets picked when Brady, Manning, Favre(as it did monday night) or any other QB throws it.

It was STILL the correct move despite the negative result. The game was over at that point.

[koolkatluke]

Older as in 26, more experienced and about the right age to lead an NFL team versus not old enough to know how to wear an NFL jockstrap and having your opponents feel bad about how sorry and lost you are?

You know what dude, I'm not sweating it because despite the fact that I think this organization is run by monkeys I still do not see Clausen being the starter past game 8 if he doesn't step up his playing. And they will turn to Matt because believe it or not....we do want to at least find out how the rest of these receivers are by the end of the year, so I highly doubt they will waste it all on Clausen. They are not THAT retarded. They will either bring in a vet, put Matt back in, or give someone else a chance. The fact that FOX chose to put Matt back in last week, shows that they are not against that move.

PS: More money usually means we EXPECT more not less from a guy.[/QUOTE]

Being a 4 year pro means we expect more not close too or even.

[PantherFanForLife]

And again your conclusion of even or close is based on what?

Think about it before you answer that. Hint: it's a redundant question.

[koolkatluke]

Older as in 26, more experienced and about the right age to lead an NFL team versus not old enough to know how to wear an NFL jockstrap and having your opponents feel bad about how sorry and lost you are?

You know what dude, I'm not sweating it because despite the fact that I think this organization is run by monkeys I still do not see Clausen being the starter past game 8 if he doesn't step up his playing. And they will turn to Matt because believe it or not....we do want to at least find out how the rest of these receivers are by the end of the year, so I highly doubt they will waste it all on Clausen. They are not THAT retarded. They will either bring in a vet, put Matt back in, or give someone else a chance. The fact that FOX chose to put Matt back in last week, shows that they are not against that move.

PS: More money usually means we EXPECT more not less from a guy.

You do Know Jimmy hit more different wr then Matt right?

[mav1234]

Dude there is a big difference between celebrating a touchdown...and judging a QB based on one drive, a touchdown, or 3 minutes of play. That is actually what my entire argument is based on.

You need to look at the WHOLE picture.

And for your last point.....you are taking things out of context with his last play. Everyone and his mother saw a pass bouncing off the receivers arm, and the other one an attempt to purposely risk an interception but try to get a TD. That's about the ONLY chance Matt had and he DID the CORRECT thing to do in that situation: which was to throw it up for grabs in the endzone. 9 out of 10 times that pass gets picked when Brady, Manning, Favre(as it did monday night) or any other QB throws it.

It was STILL the correct move despite the negative result.

I'm NOT basing Moore on 3 minutes of play. I'm basing him on 2 games of play. I'm saying that those 3 minutes just goes to show the 2 minutes were not a complete and total aberration. BTW, his last pass was not "thrown up for grabs into the endzone." It was thrown to Gettis, who was at least double covered. I get that was the point, and that the ball is probably going to go into double coverage no matter where it goes, but don't make it sound like there was a crowd of Panthers receivers waiting back there for some lob.

I'm saying right now, I don't think the situation is good for Moore to succeed, so I don't see the point in having him out there. I'm saying that I think he will just continue to play how he has played. Now, if Jimmy keeps playing how he played against CHI, I bet we get to see if Moore's throws earlier this time were an aberration or not.

Also, the AE pass was thrown to AE's leg. Not to his arm. I'm tired of people thinking that was a well thrown ball - it wasn't. Could AE have done something about it anyway? Maybe. But I think even our better receivers would have only been able to try to bat it down at best. The ball was terribly thrown.

Edit: So some of the highlights say hands, others say legs. It did NOT look like hands to me... maybe I'm wrong, though. I even thought the announcers during the game commented about it being off his thigh and how it was a bad pass but AE shoulda still gotten it anyway.

[koolkatluke]

2-6 td too int ratio moore

1-3 for jimmy

Jimmy has a little better QB rating

Jimmy has more yards and pass to different Wr

Matt has more red zone trips.

So even if matt is better right now it's not by much and for a 4 year pro going against a rookie that not good enough.

[PantherFanForLife]

You do Know Jimmy hit more different wr then Matt right?

You do know Jimmy couldn't hit the best receiver we have right? You do know 80% of Jimmy's passes were short, or most on the sidelines, targeting anyone that was open "safe" which usually meant close to the line of scrimmage and no significant gain. If that was not an option, he threw it away every time, beyond what is typically considered "good play". You do realize despite the interceptions, Matt scored legitimate touchdowns with our best receiver. You do realize Jimmy's only touchdown came on a freak play, that was thanks to Stewart being unaccounted for and WIIIIIIIDE open? You do realize he only has 1 in 3 games, right?

And I also hope you do realize our new receivers had 2 games and 2 weeks of tape to review to at least get their feet wet before receiving ANY passes from Jimmy under a real NFL gameday situation. Matt got the worst of those guys and that offense.

[mav1234]

You can really only count 1 of Moore's TDs if you're throwing out Clausen's. One of Moore's was a "freak play" in which a short pass got taken all the way because of poor defensive play - same reason Stewie had his TD.

Clausen definitely does play it safe, but he does still have some deep passes (including 2 > 40, which Moore has none of yet). They are both averaging ABYSMAL YPA, so don't act like Moore is doing far better (5.8 IS better than 5, but by... less than a yard. Both are very bad.)