The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[PantherFanForLife]

He didn't throw for 300 yards back to back... 3 tds yes, which was a feet, and believe me I celebrated it at the time and I wished him the best coming into this season... There was far more film on him by the end of last season than before. He had only played in games a couple years before, really. His starts was more than doubled, and I'm sure the film on him did too, if not more...

Sometimes, an experienced QB needs to gel a team. I think that Moore has been trying to force that and the result is what we see. Also, I hate our QB coach and I am fairly sure he is ruining every one of our promising candidates.

There have always been a lot of knocks on Moore (playbook, effort, whatever), so maybe some of them have finally caught up with him. I don't know. I do know, though, that after we saw with Jake, I'm less eager to give him extended time. He may get another shot anyway so we can all see who was right. I can't speak to why he got pulled when he did, but he did.

Why go out of your way, and create a less likely scenario that's based on pure speculation than the one that's actually far easier to understand, prove and back up with reality?

Here I point you once again to Matt's record as our starter.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________________Passing_____MATT MOORE_(Career Stats as Starter)_____Rushing___ _____

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_15_|SEA |W 13-10| 19_ | 27 | 208 | 70.4_|7.70| 54 |_0 |_0| 0.0_ |_92.8 |-| 2_ | _5_ | 2.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_16_|DAL |L _20-13| 15_ | 28 | 182 | 53.6_|6.50| 57 |_1 |_1 | 5.0_ |_70.8 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_17_| TB_|W 31-23| 15_ | 24 | 174 | 62.5_|7.25| 46 |_2 |_1 | 1.0_ |_94.8 |-| 1_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_13_| TB_|W 16-6_| 14_ | 20 | 161 | 70.0_|8.05| 66 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_73.1 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|_14_| NE_|L _20-10| 15_ | 30 | 197 | 50.0_|6.57| 44 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_82.2 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_15_|MIN |W 26-7_| 21_ | 33 | 299 | 63.6_|9.06| 55 |_3 |_0 | 2.0_ |123.2 |-| 5_ | -2_ | -0.4| _1 | 0_|

|_16_|NYG|W_41-9_| 15_ | 20 | 171 | 75.0_|8.55| 27 |_3 |_0 | 1.0_ |139.8 |-| 4_ | _2_ | 0.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_17_| NO |W 23-10| 14_ | 23 | 162 | 60.9_|7.04| 30 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_96.6 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|__1_|NYG|L_ 31-18| 14_ | 33 | 182 | 42.4_|5.52| 27 |_1 |_3 | 4.0_ |_32.6 |-| 2_ | 15_ | 7.5 | _8 | 0_|

|__2_| TB |L_ 20-7_| _6_ | 16 | 125 | 37.5_|7.81| 37 |_1 |_1 | 4.0_ |_60.7 |-| 1_ | _2_ | 2.0 | _2 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals___________________________________________

|_10_|ALL |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115 | 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_ | 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

__________________________________Totals_(Pre - 2010)_______________________________

|__8_|ALL |__ 6-2_ | 128 |205|1808 | 62.4_|8.81| 66 |11 | 3 |1.8avg|_96.7 |-| 14 | _3_ | 0.2 | _8 | 0_|

It's the two games from this year that CLEARLY stand out, as the anomalies, not the opposite. They are the furthest from the norm.

What does that mean? A shitty team is a shitty team, and a QB is far more likely to look shitty right along with the rest of the group than he is with a good team.

If the team was good, and he sucked your speculation may hold some water. As it stands, it looks more to me like the guy had a very bad season opener but still showed improvement going forward and got benched anyway. We hoped Clausen would show a bigger improvement, but in the end he did not. In hind sight it was not the correct move to make at that point in our season.

Again his record shows he has improved slowly over the years with his best games coming late last year, and having his best 2 games of his career in the last 3 games of the season.

Yeah, I guess some internal brain hemorage, perhaps from one of his concussions, could have caused him to self-implode and now he can no longer do it, he's worse than he was as a rookie, and he'll never again be able to pull a repeat.....but is that likely? I doubt it.

[koolkatluke]

pretty sure if Moore got put back in next week, started, and basically transformed the offense and won a majority of games while putting up good stats, he'd stick around.

not saying that will happen OR that Moore should get put in. just saying.

Obviously a coach isn't going to resign a player with no history of success, but that goes for most players who have been on a team for multiple years when a regime change occurs. In Moore's case, if he were to turn this season around, he would have a bit of a history of success, and likely too much of one to simply discard.

If he could do that you would be right but are you willing too bet your house on it?

[mav1234]

The scenario isn't based on speculation, it's based on his performance so far this season... which, unfortunately, is what matters to the team this year.

He sucked it up. He got yanked. He got put back in. He sucked it up. The first two games were not an isolated incident, it continued this weekend. Maybe he can win the job back, but if he sucks it up again he's probably out for good. I dunno what to tell you man, but it looks like this season is not Moore's season.

he'll likely end up on a new team next year unless he really manages to light it up - and I think we can both agree it's exceedingly unlikely that will happen based on the team around him.

edit: and hell no I'm not betting anything on Moore. I can't tell you how disappointed I was by these first couple games, but I just can't see him making it back from what has happened. I really hope he proves me wrong if he gets the chance to start.

[koolkatluke]

The scenario isn't based on speculation, it's based on his performance so far this season... which, unfortunately, is what matters to the team this year.

He sucked it up. He got yanked. He got put back in. He sucked it up. The first two games were not an isolated incident, it continued this weekend. Maybe he can win the job back, but if he sucks it up again he's probably out for good. I dunno what to tell you man, but it looks like this season is not Moore's season.

he'll likely end up on a new team next year unless he really manages to light it up - and I think we can both agree it's exceedingly unlikely that will happen based on the team around him.

Agreed he would have too really light it up to get another contract here which is what he was playing for and pretty much lost.

It would be a different story if he was signed for more years then I could see Fox and even the next coach given him another shot. But he's not and I have a feeling the put Jimmy in order came from the sky box not the field.

[PantherFanForLife]

Dude stop living in fantasy land Matt screwed up and Fox screwed up.

No matter what Matt did at the end of last year he didn't dupilcated this year. Not in the preseason not in the regular season. Matt needed too be better then what he showed and he wasn't.

With a new coach coming in do you really think Matt will be here?

Not only will they have too resigned him to a new contract (do you really think he earned a new contract?) Which never happens unless the coach knows the player or the Player has a long history of success. Does Matt have any of these things? Why are you still fighting this? It's over lets get ready for next year (hoping their will be a next year).

Thanks for telling me something I already knew. Matt screwed up and Fox screwed up. But does screwing up necessarily make you a screw up? If so let's go ahead and just go to Pike now.

Do you really think he had a chance to earn a contract this year?

And a long history? No. Does he have a promising history of success as a starter? YEAH. YES HE DOES. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!

You can't tell me his numbers as a starter prior to this year did not look promising, winning 6 of your first eight games. Do you really think any coach in his right mind would judge Matt simply based on the 2 games he played this year? If so...I don't want that coach here. The guy would be a total idiot.

[koolkatluke]

Why go out of your way, and create a less likely scenario that's based on pure speculation than the one that's actually far easier to understand, prove and back up with reality?

Here I point you once again to Matt's record as our starter.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________________Passing_____MATT MOORE_(Career Stats as Starter)_____Rushing___ _____

|game|opp |result |cmp |att |yds |cmp%|ypa |lng |td |int |sack |_rat_ |-|att |yds |avg |lng |td |

|_15_|SEA |W 13-10| 19_ | 27 | 208 | 70.4_|7.70| 54 |_0 |_0| 0.0_ |_92.8 |-| 2_ | _5_ | 2.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_16_|DAL |L _20-13| 15_ | 28 | 182 | 53.6_|6.50| 57 |_1 |_1 | 5.0_ |_70.8 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_17_| TB_|W 31-23| 15_ | 24 | 174 | 62.5_|7.25| 46 |_2 |_1 | 1.0_ |_94.8 |-| 1_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_13_| TB_|W 16-6_| 14_ | 20 | 161 | 70.0_|8.05| 66 |_0 |_1 | 1.0_ |_73.1 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|_14_| NE_|L _20-10| 15_ | 30 | 197 | 50.0_|6.57| 44 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_82.2 |-| 0_ | _0_ | 0.0 | _0 | 0_|

|_15_|MIN |W 26-7_| 21_ | 33 | 299 | 63.6_|9.06| 55 |_3 |_0 | 2.0_ |123.2 |-| 5_ | -2_ | -0.4| _1 | 0_|

|_16_|NYG|W_41-9_| 15_ | 20 | 171 | 75.0_|8.55| 27 |_3 |_0 | 1.0_ |139.8 |-| 4_ | _2_ | 0.5 | _5 | 0_|

|_17_| NO |W 23-10| 14_ | 23 | 162 | 60.9_|7.04| 30 |_1 |_0 | 2.0_ |_96.6 |-| 1_ | -1_ | -1.0| -1 | 0_|

|__1_|NYG|L_ 31-18| 14_ | 33 | 182 | 42.4_|5.52| 27 |_1 |_3 | 4.0_ |_32.6 |-| 2_ | 15_ | 7.5 | _8 | 0_|

|__2_| TB |L_ 20-7_| _6_ | 16 | 125 | 37.5_|7.81| 37 |_1 |_1 | 4.0_ |_60.7 |-| 1_ | _2_ | 2.0 | _2 | 0_|

_________________________________Totals___________________________________________

|_10_|ALL |__ 6-4_ | 148 |254|2115 | 58.3_|8.32| 66 |13 | 7 |2.2avg|_86.7 |-| 17 | 20_ | 1.2 | _8 | 0_|

__________________________________Totals_(Pre - 2010)_______________________________

|__8_|ALL |__ 6-2_ | 128 |205|1808 | 62.4_|8.81| 66 |11 | 3 |1.8avg|_96.7 |-| 14 | _3_ | 0.2 | _8 | 0_|

It's the two games from this year that CLEARLY stand out, as the anomalies, not the opposite. They are the furthest from the norm.

What does that mean? A shitty team is a shitty team, and a QB is far more likely to look shitty right along with the rest of the group than he is with a good team.

If the team was good, and he sucked your speculation may hold some water. As it stands, it looks more to me like the guy had a very bad season opener but still showed improvement going forward and got benched anyway. We hoped Clausen would show a bigger improvement, but in the end he did not. In hind sight it was not the correct move to make at that point in our season.

Again his record shows he has improved slowly over the years with his best games coming late last year, and having his best 2 games of his career in the last 3 games of the season.

Yeah, I guess some internal brain hemorage, perhaps from one of his concussions, could have caused him to self-implode and now he can no longer do it, he's worse than he was as a rookie, and he'll never again be able to pull a repeat.....but is that likely? I doubt it.

All these numbers and stats don't matter right now.

Their are only 4 numbers that matter right now 0-5 and 0 to 3.

0-5 our recored which is the end for Fox here. 0 to 3 Matt has 0 years left on his contract after this season Jimmy has 3.

These are the only numbers right now that matter too Jerry.

[PantherFanForLife]

The scenario isn't based on speculation, it's based on his performance so far this season... which, unfortunately, is what matters to the team this year.

He sucked it up. He got yanked. He got put back in. He sucked it up. The first two games were not an isolated incident, it continued this weekend. Maybe he can win the job back, but if he sucks it up again he's probably out for good. I dunno what to tell you man, but it looks like this season is not Moore's season.

he'll likely end up on a new team next year unless he really manages to light it up - and I think we can both agree it's exceedingly unlikely that will happen based on the team around him.

edit: and hell no I'm not betting anything on Moore. I can't tell you how disappointed I was by these first couple games, but I just can't see him making it back from what has happened. I really hope he proves me wrong if he gets the chance to start.

2 games brother. And...OH. MY. GOD. Are you serious? Really, are you really going to sit here and tell me last week was actually reviewable playtime of a QB? LOL.

Maybe we just need to go ahead and call Brett Farve a bust too because he threw a hail mary pass that got picked off in the endzone too at the end of the game last night. I mean, after all, what he accomplished in the past doesn't matter. It's in the past........and they were a lot closer to winning than we were.

Seriously if you actually believe that, there ain't no point to me arguing with you. You just go right along. I'm sure you will make a great NFL scout someday.

[koolkatluke]

Thanks for telling me something I already knew. Matt screwed up and Fox screwed up. But does screwing up necessarily make you a screw up? If so let's go ahead and just go to Pike now.

Do you really think he had a chance to earn a contract this year?

And a long history? No. Does he have a promising history of success as a starter? YEAH. YES HE DOES. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!

You can't tell me his numbers as a starter prior to this year did not look promising, winning 6 of your first eight games. Do you really think any coach in his right mind would judge Matt simply based on the 2 games he played this year? If so...I don't want that coach here. The guy would be a total idiot.

The same people who look at those numbes will be the same that say but when teams had flim on him and when he had the keys too the team look at what happen.

Dude you can keep loving Moore but he fuged up. It was a good situation for him in the 1st place but he didn't help the situation either.

Bring up last year all you want but this is the what have you done for me lately league.

[PantherFanForLife]

All these numbers and stats don't matter right now.

Their are only 4 numbers that matter right now 0-5 and 0 to 3.

0-5 our recored which is the end for Fox here. 0 to 3 Matt has 0 years left on his contract after this season Jimmy has 3.

These are the only numbers right now that matter too Jerry.

Ok well in that case what about 0-3? Last time I looked 0-3 is worse than 0-2. Yeah and you go right along in thinking they will keep Jimmy around for 3 years if he turns out to be a total bust just cause he has a contract. Delhomme had a contract too.

[mav1234]

2 games brother. And...OH. MY. GOD. Are you serious? Really, are you really going to sit here and tell me last week was actually reviewable playtime of a QB? LOL.

Maybe we just need to go ahead and call Brett Farve a bust too because he threw a hail mary pass that got picked off in the endzone too at the end of the game last night. I mean, after all, what he accomplished in the past doesn't matter. It's in the past........and they were a lot closer to winning than we were.

Seriously if you actually believe that, there ain't no point to me arguing with you. You just go right along. I'm sure you will make a great NFL scout someday.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that if he comes in and leads a touchdown drive or two, you'd not say "SEE SEE WHAT HE CAN DO!"?

Or is it only the negatives we can't consider? Pfft.

The fact is he got brought into a game and proceeded to throw two interceptions. That sucks. That plays a role in what a coach thinks of a player. Is it going to be the sole reason he doesn't start? Hell no. But it just goes to prove the knock on him this year: he can't protect the ball for his life.

Fact is, Moore has looked pretty bad every time he's touched the ball since the start of preseason, save for a half dozen throws. For someone who is supposed to be a bit of a veteran presence and has been growing in the system for years, that isn't cutting it.

Not saying you hang him because of his 2 ints, but I'm saying they are part of why you're cautious to just bring him in expecting an instant fix. He showed last week that isn't gonna be the case.

edit: and holy christ. Favre? Really? Favre had an amazing game and brought them to the brink of victory and - as he so often does - made one last bad throw to end the game. Great QB, fun player to watch, but Favre is what he is, and hell, even though Moore may have had him beat in fantasy points in week 1 and maybe 2, he's not anywhere near the caliber of player Favre, and Favre has earned that right.

Totally different situation than bringing in Moore with 4 minutes left and saying "Show me what you got."

What he "got" was 2 interceptions in like 6 throws. argh.

edit2: NFL scout comment - I don't know about you, but I'm no NFL scout. I guess maybe you are aspiring to be one. I'm happy just being an amature staying up way too late to talk to people on the internet about my favorite team. I have no illusions about being a superior evaluator of talent than anyone.

[PantherFanForLife]

The same people who look at those numbes will be the same that say but when teams had flim on him and when he had the keys too the team look at what happen.

Dude you can keep loving Moore but he f**ked up. It was a good situation for him in the 1st place but he didn't help the situation either.

Bring up last year all you want but this is the what have you done for me lately league.

If that's really the case Jimmy's 0-3 and he just got worse in his last game not better.

Please. Any way you look at this, the original question still stands. And the answer is obvious you CAN'T justify Clausen at this point. Not with anything solid other than.....he's a rookie.

[koolkatluke]

I mean is wasn't a good spot too be in because he had little room for error. Maybe if he had a good preseason he would have had a longer lesh. But no that didn't happen.

[PantherFanForLife]

Are you going to sit there and tell me that if he comes in and leads a touchdown drive or two, you'd not say "SEE SEE WHAT HE CAN DO!"?

Or is it only the negatives we can't consider? Pfft.

The fact is he got brought into a game and proceeded to throw two interceptions. That sucks. That plays a role in what a coach thinks of a player. Is it going to be the sole reason he doesn't start? Hell no. But it just goes to prove the knock on him this year: he can't protect the ball for his life.

Fact is, Moore has looked pretty bad every time he's touched the ball since the start of preseason, save for a half dozen throws. For someone who is supposed to be a bit of a veteran presence and has been growing in the system for years, that isn't cutting it.

Not saying you hang him because of his 2 ints, but I'm saying they are part of why you're cautious to just bring him in expecting an instant fix. He showed last week that isn't gonna be the case.

Yes actually I'm really going to sit here and tell you that I have more sense to judge ANY guy by one or two games. If Matt comes in and wins us one, I will be happy, but I will wait until he has more wins than losses before I pass further judgement. Something I can't say for many on here.

Oh and one more time. Last week showed nothing. Get out of here with that garbage.

[koolkatluke]

If that's really the case Jimmy's 0-3 and he just got worse in his last game not better.

Please. Any way you look at this, the original question still stands. You CAN'T justify Clausen at this point.

Dude I'm sorry your not getting this.

Jimmy = Rookie = 4 year deal = drafted = making more money= more room for error.

Moore = 4year pro= 1 year deal = picked up off waviers = less money= older = less room for error.

Plain and simple I know it hurts and it sucks for Matt but that's how it was set up.

Matt had too play like brady too keep his job he didn't move on.