The better question: How can anyone justify Clausen over Moore?

[chef17]

Matt Moore has no future as a starter in this league.

Jimmy Clausen may have a future in this league as a starter.

Nothing else needs be said.

No proof of that but your entitled to your opinion. Both are young guys, both could be starters.

[koolkatluke]

Moore is just in the wrong place at the wrong time.. no clausen & he probably starts the whole year no questions asked.if anybody wonders how high that FO thinks of clausen only needs to realize that panthers made efforts to move as far up as late into the first round to draft clausen(so he will be around for a while)

Agreed Moore was put in a situation where he had too do a brady or a Kurt warner like act to be the future of this team. Weather it's his fault or the whole offense it didn't happen.

So now it's time too see if Jimmy will sink or swim. If he sinks we can use our top 3 picks on one of the QB's in this years Class which is really good. Or he swims and we attack other area of needs by trading down and get more picks for the new coach.

[koolkatluke]

Well, in that line of thinking, it's best we find out what Moore really has before his contract is up, no?

Anyway, Clausen is gonna start I bet, so we'll see.

Not really the risk hurting your team more is greater trying too find out if Moore can play.

Lets say he continues with the way he's playing for the rest of the season.

You end up with not knowning if Clausen the future or a bust. A top 3 pick would go too waste because you hadn't found out if Clausen was the man or not. The new coach could use the Pick on Mallet or Luck or trade down too get help for the Def. and more weapons for Clausen.

You can only make this Decision if Clausen has played the season and proven himself a player or a bust. You make more question if Moore tries and fails then you do with Clausen.

Now is time we prepare for the future no matter what happens Clausen will still be on this team Moore right now is a different story.

[mav1234]

You won't know if Clausen is "the future" really this season in almost all certainty. The only way you would is if he came in the next game, and for then ext 10, literally lit the game up. Otherwise, there is a chance he regresses in his second year... or greatly improves.

Either way, Clausen is here to stay. Moore is not. We could lose something great in Moore, but Clausen isn't going anywhere. At least, that's the logic behind "Finding out what you have", assuming we don't know what either could be.

I don't really think that Clausen is playing so we can find out what we have, but playing because management thinks they know what they have.

[PantherFanForLife]

Also, one last point.

The only argument you have is that 4-year veteran Moore might be slightly better than our struggling rookie.

Jesus that's a sad endorsement.

Uhm there is no might about it. Moore HAS already proven he's a better man that what Clausen has already shown us, weather or not YOU want to admitt it.

Again your ENTIRE argument, goes back to the two games, out of which even you admitt only one was truly bad.

The simple fact that the only way to make your point, is to repeatedly rely and isolate his worst performance as a starter while completely ignoring or dismissing the many times he's been good, just destroys any sort of credibility. Just like the rest of the Matt haters. No matter how bad you want to change history, it's already been made.

[PantherFanForLife]

there is the possibility those games were anomalies. There is also the possibility his first two this season were. However, his performance on Sunday tends to indicate that, while the games last season may not be anomalies, it's possible that now that there is more film on him, something is giving him away.

It wasn't just one bad game, man. Take away that first game, and what does he have?

1 TD, 3 ints... =\

A bad first few games I would agree with. Could that mean he'd have a good season after we put him back in? It's possible. However, *something* made the coaches doubt his performance last year enough to only get him for a year - and I don't think that is because Fox was leaving, but because someone didn't trust him.

Uhm yeah and there's also the possibility that Brady will turn out to be a fraud after all.

I'm sorry but a sample of 8 games with at least a decent team where the guy performed well, great even in back to back games has a lot more weight that the opening games of this year, with this team, with little playing time in the pre-season, with a coach in his last year, with his head on the chop block REGARDLESS of how he played.

It far more likely a sample of 2 games during the span of two weeks is incorrect compared to a sample of 8 over a span of two years than the opposite.

Oh and PS: Without pretty much him coming out and saying it....even John Fox admitted he had NO GOOD reason to bench Matt. "I don't know where his confidence level is?"

That's not an excuse to bench a QB. That's a question. And honestly I may just lay off Fox for these moves cause the more I think about it, the less likely do I believe it was his decision to do that.

[mav1234]

Uhm yeah and there's also the possibility that Brady will turn out to be a fraud after all.

I'm sorry but a sample of 8 games with at least a decent team where the guy performed well, great even in back to back games has a lot more weight that the opening games of this year, with this team, with little playing time in the pre-season, with a coach in his last year, with his head on the chop block REGARDLESS of how he played.

It far more likely a sample of 2 games during the span of two weeks is incorrect compared to a sample of 8 over a span of two years than the opposite.

That depends. It is possible that the 2 games he started at the beginning of the season, when the team was his, are more indicative of the type of player he is than the 8 games he played over 2 years as a backup without needing to carry the team at all.

I would say we really do not know how Moore could be as the undisputed starter of a team, but I think we can both agree this situation sucks ass for evaluating anything.

Edit: to the PS... I think Moore WAS benched too early, but now we've got Jimmy and I think Moore's last showing just means that we're goign to have him for another week at a minimum.

[PantherFanForLife]

Not really the risk hurting your team more is greater trying too find out if Moore can play.

Lets say he continues with the way he's playing for the rest of the season.

You end up with not knowning if Clausen the future or a bust. A top 3 pick would go too waste because you hadn't found out if Clausen was the man or not. The new coach could use the Pick on Mallet or Luck or trade down too get help for the Def. and more weapons for Clausen.

You can only make this Decision if Clausen has played the season and proven himself a player or a bust. You make more question if Moore tries and fails then you do with Clausen.

Now is time we prepare for the future no matter what happens Clausen will still be on this team Moore right now is a different story.

Your argument is COMPLETELY flawed.

1. Put your bias aside and realize that the fact that Matt didn't get enough play time this year, means we don't know what we have in him, not Clausen, considering Matt has been very reliable in the past. What we don't know is if in fact he would have gone back to playing the way he did the 2 previous seasons we relied on him. THAT IS THE QUESTION.

2. Even if Clausen is a TOTAL bust this year, you STILL can't judge him because in his turn, HE was put in a no-win situation also. He's a f**king rookie that had his head blown up by the media and his loyal fans, OF NO HELP TO HIM. So I couldn't possibly give you a solid review of this kid AT LEAST until 2011 or 2012, even if he plays ALL year because of how green he is and how HORRIBLE our receivers are.

So the only thing this situation did is create more answers. It didn't help the team. It completely f**ked it up from the start, cast 2 QB's in complete shadow, and RUINED an entire season.

So not only are we not going to find out if Matt could have been a starter here, but no matter what Clausen does, we won't know either. The only way we'll be sure of Clausen is if he plays GREAT consistently. Considering the chances of that are slim to none with this team, you have answered NEITHER question. The only thing anyone will be able to say about Clausen if he f**ks up the next 6 games is that he wasn't ready to lead this team, this year. Unfortunatelly most will probably not see it that way.

Matt had enough experience to come in and show us he is the guy had he gotten at least half a season. Matt was starter-ready. But you can't say he is no good, or a bust, because he played 2 games and got pulled. Not getting the opportunity is not the same thing as actually not performing. If he would have played 5-6 games, and we would have lost in the same fashion due mainly to QB play then you could really close the book on Matt, and say...the guy's a bust. Most people that are saying that right now, are saying it because they WISH it so, not because they actually REALLY looked at him, analyzed the situation and came to that conclusion based on hard facts and reality. They are not, they are relying on the worst part of his career, to give credibility to a fuged up move, and to keep their rookie from not looking as bad as he truly is right now.

Clausen is NOT even at the point where he CAN be reviewed yet in any kind of fair way.

[mav1234]

In all honesty, there have been countless backups that have fizzled under the pressure of being "the man." It is possible that once more film on him was available, once he had the pressure of leading the team, and once the team wasn't clicking in other ways (remember, every time he has taken over has been late in the season), the reality was exposed.

[PantherFanForLife]

In all honesty, there have been countless backups that have fizzled under the pressure of being "the man." It is possible that once more film on him was available, once he had the pressure of leading the team, and once the team wasn't clicking in other ways (remember, every time he has taken over has been late in the season), the reality was exposed.

Sure that's possible but it is one scenario of many. The reality of the situation is you can only say that, if you can actually back it up with games. In Matt's case more evidence lies in his favor than against him. There was plenty of tape available on him last year, he still went 4-5 to finish the season.

And tape or no tape you cannot take away the fact that the guy is capable of throwing for 300 yards, for 3 touchdowns and 0 pics in back to back games. That's all on him, and in the end isn't that what we are looking for?

Shouldn't we give a chance to the guy that's proven he CAN do that when your team is good than a guy we have no clue about? Because personally I'm happy with a guy that can win me 4-5 when he has the help of my team and the rest of the team is good. That's actually all I want. That usually means easy playoff spot in the NFC south.

Show me a QB that can go 4-5 when the rest of the team is bad and then some people around here may have a point, but still not a point when it comes to Clausen. Cause, clearly he's not that guy this year.

[mav1234]

Sure that's possible but it is one scenario of many. The reality of the situation is you can only say that, if you can actually back it up with games. In Matt's case more evidence lies in his favor than against him. There was plenty of tape available on him last year, he still went 4-5 to finish the season.

And tape or no tape you cannot take away the fact that the guy is capable of throwing for 300 yards, for 3 touchdowns and 0 pics in back to back games. That's all on him, and in the end isn't that what we are looking for?

Shouldn't we give a chance to the guy that's proven he CAN do that when your team is good than a guy we have no clue about?

He didn't throw for 300 yards back to back... 3 tds yes, which was a feet, and believe me I celebrated it at the time and I wished him the best coming into this season... There was far more film on him by the end of last season than before. He had only played in games a couple years before, really. His starts was more than doubled, and I'm sure the film on him did too, if not more...

Sometimes, an experienced QB needs to gel a team. I think that Moore has been trying to force that and the result is what we see. Also, I hate our QB coach and I am fairly sure he is ruining every one of our promising candidates.

There have always been a lot of knocks on Moore (playbook, effort, whatever), so maybe some of them have finally caught up with him. I don't know. I do know, though, that after we saw with Jake, I'm less eager to give him extended time. He may get another shot anyway so we can all see who was right. I can't speak to why he got pulled when he did, but he did.

[koolkatluke]

That depends. It is possible that the 2 games he started at the beginning of the season, when the team was his, are more indicative of the type of player he is than the 8 games he played over 2 years as a backup without needing to carry the team at all.

I would say we really do not know how Moore could be as the undisputed starter of a team, but I think we can both agree this situation sucks ass for evaluating anything.

Edit: to the PS... I think Moore WAS benched too early, but now we've got Jimmy and I think Moore's last showing just means that we're goign to have him for another week at a minimum.

Again it really doesn't matter what Moore can do right now.

Plain and simple since Jimmy is a rookie all you want to see is if he improves over time if he can make player around him better and if after he is knock down or has a bad game he comes back more determined and focus too do better. This is waht you can find out this year.

Moore would have too be the next Brady or Kurt waner too be on this team next year.

1st they were expecting more of him he has been in this system for 4 years.

He put up great numbers last year. He had alot of reps all offseason and learned under Vet Qb like Delhome, Vinny, and Romo. Even if the team was bad he should have been better.

I ask this ? because nobody on this Moore thing can anwser it

When has a in coming HC RESIGNED A QB with no long term history of success?

It has never happen. Coaches don't start out signing QB they have no reason to trust. Sorry but Moore did not help his situation.

It sucks but his only chance this year was get off too a good start. Get this team close or in the playoffs and forceing JR too reup him and Fox. Guess what that is not going too happen. When Matt got pulled by Fox it was over for him and Fox period.

[mav1234]

pretty sure if Moore got put back in next week, started, and basically transformed the offense and won a majority of games while putting up good stats, he'd stick around.

not saying that will happen OR that Moore should get put in. just saying.

Obviously a coach isn't going to resign a player with no history of success, but that goes for most players who have been on a team for multiple years when a regime change occurs. In Moore's case, if he were to turn this season around, he would have a bit of a history of success, and likely too much of one to simply discard.

[koolkatluke]

Sure that's possible but it is one scenario of many. The reality of the situation is you can only say that, if you can actually back it up with games. In Matt's case more evidence lies in his favor than against him. There was plenty of tape available on him last year, he still went 4-5 to finish the season.

And tape or no tape you cannot take away the fact that the guy is capable of throwing for 300 yards, for 3 touchdowns and 0 pics in back to back games. That's all on him, and in the end isn't that what we are looking for?

Shouldn't we give a chance to the guy that's proven he CAN do that when your team is good than a guy we have no clue about? Because personally I'm happy with a guy that can win me 4-5 when he has the help of my team and the rest of the team is good. That's actually all I want. That usually means easy playoff spot in the NFC south.

Show me a QB that can go 4-5 when the rest of the team is bad and then some people around here may have a point, but still not a point when it comes to Clausen. Cause, clearly he's not that guy this year.

Dude stop living in fantasy land Matt screwed up and Fox screwed up.

No matter what Matt did at the end of last year he didn't dupilcated this year. Not in the preseason not in the regular season. Matt needed too be better then what he showed and he wasn't.

With a new coach coming in do you really think Matt will be here?

Not only will they have too resigned him to a new contract (do you really think he earned a new contract?) Which never happens unless the coach knows the player or the Player has a long history of success. Does Matt have any of these things? Why are you still fighting this? It's over lets get ready for next year (hoping their will be a next year).