Rookie QB to Rookie WRs

[mav1234]

The basic direction of your post was speculation. IF Clausen can improve for the future...IF Clausen is here next year and not Moore...You are basically saying Clausen WILL BE the future of this franchise just because of his name when in reality he has shown nothing that would lead to the belief he can be an elite QB. Slow deliveries, low release points...those things can't be fixed. Do you remember when CARR (shudders) was coming out and they had clips of him throwing with ladders in front of him to try and change his release point? Not good for Clausen to be having the same problem.

If you haven't realized it, this season is mostly about finding out if the speculation we've been doing on players pans out. That's one reason I think we start Clausen.

As to Clausen's pedigree, it comes from where he played and the type of offense he ran. While his release isn't perfect, it was never billed as his biggest problem at all. Attitude was almost always the main knock; now, it seems like his throwing motion, his pocket presence, and his ability to find the deep man are problems, none of which he had at Notre Dame.

Moore has ALWAYS lofted passes. This was the knock on him from day one; back before he got his first starts years ago, when he was coming in random games as relief, he was floating the ball all over the place. It has to do with his ability to throw the deep ball and how he does it more than intention, I think. He has a decent arm, but Clausen SUPPOSEDLY was more accurate. The 2-3 balls Moore threw that "should" have been caught can also be on the QB considering they were overthrown too. So, which is it - does a QB miss a receiver or a receiver miss the ball? Bit o' both, and it's happened for both Moore & Clausen this season. If even half the balls dropped this season (or barely missed) aren't, not only have we probably won 2 games, it wouldn't matter which QB is starting 'cause they'd both have had totally different stats.

Obviously Fox is pissed about the offense... but he's not just angry at lack of risks. Did you hear his complaints about lay selection? Throwing a screen to peppers' side? haha.

Anyway, I thought Clausen looked abysmal this last week, and so did Moore. We're pretty much poo either way, so I prefer to go with the option that, imo, has the most upside. I think we've seen that Moore can't read a defense all that well and has a tendency to be overaggressive. On the other hand, Clausen seems scared to throw the deep ball and doesn't let plays develop. Which of those can be coached out? I don't know, and I doubt our coaches can make either one of them any good.

[mav1234]

Why is D Will playing? He might not be here next year right? Why is Kalil playing?

Pro bowlers more likely to be resigned than "career" backups?

[Brooklyn Bully]

Why is D Will playing? He might not be here next year right? Why is Kalil playing?

They're starters. Moore is not. They've proven to be great. He, has not.

Please don't avoid my question. WHY do YOU want Moore to start, knowing he may not be here. It can only be one thing. You think he'll make us win. Right?

[Proudiddy]

Yeah I agree with what you're saying, I just think they can coach him a bit and help him get the courage to sling it downfield. He has that in him. I think the staff needs to start by saying: "Look, don't be careless, but take some risks. Show us you have 'it.'" I honestly believe coaching & playcalling is part of the problem. Yes, our gameplan is to go deep, but our gameplan is also to be super conservative with the football.

Also, yeah, I think he is missing some of the openings and taking the easy way out. I don't like that, and I think that needs to change. He seems able to find Gettis, but not Smith, which makes me wonder if it's a chemistry issue. I would like to see some more out of him before we can him, but I think unless he really shows some promise, we're almost guaranteed a QB if we get a very early draft pick this coming year.

Yeah, I understand. And I agree, he shouldn't be "canned" yet, I'm just pointing this out to the Blind Clausen Jock Sniffers, lol... I think there needs to be some serious tempering of expectations right now with what we've already seen from him. I don't get the blind optimism by so many here about him with what he's shown yet they talk poo about Armanti. I'm not referring to anyone specific, I'm just saying in general. You seem to be on the same page as me as far as looking at this with no vested interest other than the best for the team, which there needs to be more of around here instead of all this player fan club poo...

[mav1234]

yeah I understand. A lot of posters - not just "us" Clausen lovers - do talk poo about Armanti, which is BS IMO. I talk crap about Lafell kind of, but in the "just don't start him right now, give him time to learn" kind of way =( so I understand why people like you feel how they do about Clausen.

I admit Clausen stunk it up last game and that HAS to change.

Did anyone see what Singletary did to Alex Smith in the last game? I know that can backfire terribly, especially on a rookie, but at least he showed his players he meant business.

I want to see this team do well overall. In the short term, it ain't happenin'. We may win some games this year, but I expect this to be about youth development (which, imo, is not Fox's strong suite ).

Does anyone know examples of QBs who stunk it up their first year, but turned it around with a new coach? I don't really see Manning as the same deal, because he showed such incredible promise almost right out of the gate (it's hard to explain this unless you watched some of those games, but his stats tell total lies about his ability).

[TheRealDeal]

My comments weren't saying we wouldn't want them back but we can't franchise all of them. Honestly, would you want to play here? That's all. They have as good a chance of coming back as Moore does.

Yes he is a better quarterback than Clausen and is essentially just as young. Why not build around him. He, unlike Clausen, has had games where he played well and won games.

[TheRealDeal]

Mav I don't want to quote post #43 but here are my comments:

You say Moore cannot read a defense, but Clausen hasn't shown that he can either. He prefers to throw quick slants or check downs, both requiring no reading of the defense. Don't assume because he doesn't turn it over that he can read a defense.

As to Clausen's pedigree...Moore also played in a pro style offense for a former pro head coach. The difference is his school didn't have a TV deal with NBC. Guess which PAC10 team has won the most games in the last 6 or so years? Wrong, not SC, its the Beavers. When Moore played in HS, ESPN wasn't covering high school games but guess which HS school was featured in ESPN the magazine and was coined "The Quarterback Factory" for producing between 8-12 straight D1 quarterbacks without being able to recruit players? Wrong again, it's actually Hart High School where Moore attended not the private school where Clausen's dad had multiple players living in his home so his son's team would be better. Do some research before you buy into the Clausen pedigree.

Those problems you say didn't exist at ND, they existed but when playing clearly inferior opponents they don't get exposed. This is the same reasons Colt Brennan didn't make it into the 1st round. When you have Golden Tate chasing your deep ball quackers its easier to make a play on a defender from Army or Navy than it is in the NFL.

I also agree with you on the dropped balls. In the few cases I mentioned, more blame is put on Moore because he didn't put the ball on the numbers but I also expect NFL receivers to make some of those plays regardless. I also agree that Clausen has been victimized by drops but Clausen's drops weren't going for TDs, they were 10 yd gains while Moore's were game changers.

[mav1234]

Man dude, Clausen had dropped balls all over the field. Maybe they weren't sure-fire TDs, but they were sure-fire drive killers. Complete and total drive killers. Some would describe those throws as underthrows or overthrows - just as some describe the dropped TDs from Moore the same way.

Moore is still young, but when the job was turned over to him he imploded and looked terrible. I don't know how else you can describe his performances. Yes, Clausen looked terrible too. The point is they both look bad. They both suffer from many of the same problems.

Every point I make you just say "Well Clausen can't do it better!" What exactly does it say about a several-year pro if the defense for him is "The rookie can't do it better"?

Moore may get his chance, but it won't be next week. His ints guaranteed that. Say what you want, but when you come in and throw as many ints in 2 minutes as a rookie has in his 3.5 or whatever starts, you're not going to be looking good as the starter.

edit: on the pedigree, lol @ media bias. Moore went undrafted for a reason. If you want to argue pedigree it has as much to do with the college and who the college has produced as high schools. None of that matters. I told you why people say he has pedigree, not whether that meant Moore had the same, better, or what.

[TheRealDeal]

I didn't use the "The rookie can't do it better" answer once.

And fans may see the 2 picks and scream "Moore sucks" but when they watch it on tape I guarantee you not one coach will have a comment directed towards Moore for either of those. You know the first was on Armanti and the second doesn't matter, the game was over why not throw it up. I know that. Fox knows that. You just don't want to know it because it doesn't further your argument.

I agree Clausen has had dropped balls but I wouldn't say any more than Moore with the difference being a few of Moore's would have been TDs.

Also, Clausen has missed wide open receivers in the short and intermediate passing game which is supposed to be his strong point. There was one drive yesterday where he threw three balls in a row no where near the intended receiver, I'm talking missing by 5 feet.

So if Clausen's supposed strengths no longer exist well...we saw what happens.