How can anyone justify Moore over Clausen at this point?

[TheRealDeal]

not sure what to tell you, but I guarantee if he ran into Peppers, there was a reason for it. If anything, he was often moving too early away from peppers' side.

Not sure what you expect. If he says either of the first two, you bench him right away because he either has no confidence or is a jerk and is not a team player. Would it have been nice to have him say "yeah I missed him"? Sure. I think he actually said something pretty close to that, but without listening to it again I could be wrong. I think "There was a miscommunication or I threw the ball to the wrong place" or whatever it was he said is about as good as you can get for taking quite a bit of the blame for f**king up.

You were asking about his last drive, anyway, not how he missed Lafell. Which he shouldn't have done, I agree. Nobody is defending his play in that game, just saying Moore has done pretty terrible a well this year.

My point was that I expected him to say it was a miscommunication, which he did. Sorry if it came out different. It's what you choose to believe actually happened. Did he miss the guy or did the receiver run the wrong route. We'll never know but it's one or the other. Probably different on each one.

[Guild]

not sure what to tell you, but I guarantee if he ran into Peppers, there was a reason for it. If anything, he was often moving too early away from peppers' side.

Yeah the reason was he was running scared and showing zero pocket presence. Of course the blocking particularly on the right side was poor for several weeks now this week included.

Look I don't think Clausen will not improve, but realistically right now not only is he playing like a NFL rookie he is playing like a bad quarterback. I don't want him to turn into another Carr so he needs to trust in his OL and they need to do much better earning that trust.

[CatMan72]

Final thought, Jake had more PPG than either Clausen or Moore last year... want him back? If so, why not?

[mav1234]

True, Kral, but I'd rather have a NFL rookie playing like a bad quarterback than someone who has been in our system for years playing like a bad quarterback.

I think that point is pretty much the one thing all of us can agree to disagree on, since we're not going anywhere.

No matter who starts, I hope they play well, I hope they take the team to a new level, and I hope they continue to improve. I have no malice towards either guy and I'd love to see Moore succeed if he ends up playing.

Final thought, Jake had more PPG than either Clausen or Moore last year... want him back? If so, why not?

I do, but not as a starter or to play (and only if the coaches can keep from putting him into the starting lineup). Could use the veteran QB presence to help the young guys, imo. I think Moore benefited from it last season, and I think it's clearly absent this year.

[mav1234]

Final thought, Jake had more PPG than either Clausen or Moore last year... want him back? If so, why not?

I do, but not as a starter or to play (and only if the coaches can keep from putting him into the starting lineup). Could use the veteran QB presence to help the young guys, imo. I think Moore benefited from it last season, and I think it's clearly absent this year.

[TheRealDeal]

?? Didn't look how bad?

Moore looked terrible for most of his rookie year, or have you forgotten?

Terrible huh?

In his starts in 2007:

Seattle:

19/27 70.4% 208 yds 7.7 avg 0 TD 0 Int WIN

Dallas:

15/28 53.6% 182 yds 6.5 avg 1 TD 1 Int LOSS

Tampa:

15/24 62.5% 174 yds 7.3 avg 2 TD 1 Int WIN

And just for you guys that love ratings: 92.8, 70.8, 94.8 respectively.

Now in Clausen's rookie starts:

Cincy:

16/33 48.5% 188 yds 5.7 avg 0 TD 1 Int LOSS

NO:

11/21 52.4% 146 yds 7.0 avg 1 TD 0 Int LOSS

Chicago:

9/22 40.9% 61 yds 2.8 avg 0 TD 1 Int LOSS

And again for you rating guys: 53.6, 90.6, 29.7

Who had the terrible rookie 3 starts?

[TheRealDeal]

Final thought, Jake had more PPG than either Clausen or Moore last year... want him back? If so, why not?

I'll have to look into that but I don't think that's true

Moore put up 23.2 ppg and Jake only 18.09. Try again

[Guild]

True, Kral, but I'd rather have a NFL rookie playing like a bad quarterback than someone who has been in our system for years playing like a bad quarterback.

I think that point is pretty much the one thing all of us can agree to disagree on, since we're not going anywhere.

Like I said I just don't want him to turn into the next David Carr. I fear for him more than dislike his play (for the most part, there are some things I don't like). He wasn't expected to be out here yet but here he is. I'm just hoping that he will show some flashes of brilliance and have thus far been disappointed.

We don't really disagree I just like seeing discussion and arguing.

[mav1234]

Terrible huh?

In his starts in 2007:

Seattle:

19/27 70.4% 208 yds 7.7 avg 0 TD 0 Int WIN

Dallas:

15/28 53.6% 182 yds 6.5 avg 1 TD 1 Int LOSS

Tampa:

15/24 62.5% 174 yds 7.3 avg 2 TD 1 Int WIN

And just for you guys that love ratings: 92.8, 70.8, 94.8 respectively.

Now in Clausen's rookie starts:

Cincy:

16/33 48.5% 188 yds 5.7 avg 0 TD 1 Int LOSS

NO:

11/21 52.4% 146 yds 7.0 avg 1 TD 0 Int LOSS

Chicago:

9/22 40.9% 61 yds 2.8 avg 0 TD 1 Int LOSS

And again for you rating guys: 53.6, 90.6, 29.7

Who had the terrible rookie 3 starts?

yeah let's ignore his previous games played and only count his starts no matter when they happened! good job. Let's throw out the "garbage time" he plays, too. and when he does poorly in his starts this season, let's chuck them out too.

Moore's numbers for his first year were pretty bad. He had like 3 tds and 6 turnovers or something... and all his TDs came in a 3 game stretch where he started against 3 teams resting their starters. Not taking anything away from his wins, but it is what it is.

You can't just look at a rookie and compare a dude who came in during his third week to one that came in during week 13 or 14. It's not fair to the player to make straight up comparisons.

We'll be better off comparing them at the end of their seasons.

It'd be nice if Moore had been given more time, but since he wasn't (and when he was, he made the "most" of it), he's probably not getting back in for a few more weeks.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I know you guys were all on the Matt Moore bandwagon before the season started and it's literally impossible for you to admit you were wrong but he's not a good QB and won't be a Panther next year. Time to move on.

[mav1234]

Like I said I just don't want him to turn into the next David Carr. I fear for him more than dislike his play (for the most part, there are some things I don't like). He wasn't expected to be out here yet but here he is. I'm just hoping that he will show some flashes of brilliance and have thus far been disappointed.

We don't really disagree I just like seeing discussion and arguing.

If we throw out the idea that Moore is better for the team and concentrate on what is better for Jimmy, then you have to decide if benching him could do more harm than good.

It does more harm than good if he could have learned and perhaps gained some valuable insight. It does more good than harm if you protect him from becoming shell shocked.

At the same time, I think a game like the Bears was a good lesson for him. He's going to have to learn to "take his lumps." If he has another showing like that, though, it's time to go with Moore and just let him watch until week 12 or so, when hopefully he'll have a better grasp of the team & offense.

[TheRealDeal]

yeah let's ignore his previous games played and only count his starts no matter when they happened! good job. Let's throw out the "garbage time" he plays, too. and when he does poorly in his starts this season, let's chuck them out too.

Moore's numbers for his first year were pretty bad. He had like 3 tds and 6 turnovers or something... and all his TDs came in a 3 game stretch where he started against 3 teams resting their starters. Not taking anything away from his wins, but it is what it is.

You can't just look at a rookie and compare a dude who came in during his third week to one that came in during week 13 or 14. It's not fair to the player to make straight up comparisons.

We'll be better off comparing them at the end of their seasons.

It'd be nice if Moore had been given more time, but since he wasn't (and when he was, he made the "most" of it), he's probably not getting back in for a few more weeks.

He only played one team resting their starters and that was the end of the year. Seattle at home played all their guys and so did Dallas on prime time Sunday night football. The only reason I used those games are because those were his first 3 rookie starts. Same with Clausen's first 3 rookie starts.

Do you want me to count the time he came in against ATL(???) and only threw a hail mary at the end of the half because Delhomme didn't have the arm strength and it got picked off? You're really holding that against him?

[TheRealDeal]

If we throw out the idea that Moore is better for the team and concentrate on what is better for Jimmy, then you have to decide if benching him could do more harm than good.

Jimmy more important than the team now huh?

[TheRealDeal]

Anyone want to make a sig bet with me on how this thing plays out?