How can anyone justify Moore over Clausen at this point?

[Phil Dees]

They BOTH SUCK !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/qualified/false/count/41

[The Saltman]

They BOTH SUCK !

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/qualified/false/count/41

this.

notice how Delhomme is under clausen..

[mav1234]

Yeah the math in this thread is questionable at best. It just depends on how you want the stats to look. Got a meeting. Be back in an hour

I think the point he is making is that for the number of passes thrown, Moore is tossing a noticably larger number of ints. One every 10 attempts or something, which is outrageous and terrible

Clausen has less TDs per attempt and has more fumbles. On the other hand, he takes care of the ball better when he throws it.

I have been watching Clausen a bit more on highlights and replays, and comparing it to what I saw when watching him at ND. First, I don't think the quality of competition or quality of his receivers (we'll get to this) is what is causing his play. It contributes to it, but the total change I think is due to other things:

1) Clausen doesn't seem to trust the routes his players are running. He doesn't seem to think they will get open evantually, and he senses pressure and scrambles to try to find an open man.

2) He does his reads a bit early into the play and does not seem to come back to them as much. I think this goes back to #1.

3) He does not look comfortable out there, especially the last game, where he was playing scared. I don't blame him, our o-line is terrible. On one of the only plays he had great protection and sold the play action ,he flat out missed Lafell.

4) We are not getting to the line of scrimmage to survey defenses fast enough, imo. Of course, the longer we're at the line of scrimmage the more likely one of our offensive players is to just decided to run off before the snap anyway.

5) Play calling. Not only is it predictable, I think it is being done far too slowly. See #4. Is this Clausen's fault? Dunno. No idea what exactly is going on but it seems to take forever for him to get the play in, then to relay it to other players.

Take it or leave it. A lot of the above are on him; some are on his line; others on his WRs. He needs to build chemistry with these dudes, especially Smith. I wish Smith was healthy during this bye so he and Clausen could get some practice in.

[Phil Dees]

The fact that a QB with a 5.9 Rating beat us by 17 points is what's most disturbing.

[mav1234]

collins didn't beat us. Forte and our terribad special teams coverage beat us. =(

otherwise the game would have ended in a draw!

[HPPantherzfan]

Well, I guess if you want to pull any kind of positive out of our QB's play, it would have to be the fact that in the three weeks, the rookie, Jimmy Clausen has started he has had a better QB rating than the three veteran QB's he has faced!

LOL!!!!! Can you tell I'm stretching to find something positive!!!!!

[Phil Dees]

collins didn't beat us. Forte and our terribad special teams coverage beat us.

Oh, my bad. I thought I read here somewhere that all experts agree that the QB's MOST IMPORTANT task was to protect the ball.

I knew something wasn't right there.

[CatMan72]

Where are you getting these numbers

Clausen: 1 TD 3 INT

Moore: 2 TD 6 INT

That would be the same ratio bud. And they both have lost 2 fumbles even though Clausen has fumbled 7 times and Moore only 3 times.

Right, 6 out of the 59 passes Moore has attempted this year have resulted in an interception :eek:

3 out of the 91 passes Clausen (the rookie) has attempted this year have resulted in an interception.

2 out of the 59 passes Moore has attempted this year have resulted in a TD.

1 out of the 91 passes Clausen has attempted this year have resulted in a TD.

Let's also consider that 22 of the 91 total passing attempts by Clausen came from the Bears game, with no Steve Smith on the field while both of the TD's Matt More has thrown this year have been to Steve Smith.

Oh, and Moore's average yards-per-throw is 5.8 while Clausen's is 5.0. Moore's completion percentage is 43% while Clausen's is 47%

Questions?

[koolkatluke]

Could people stop the David Carr excuse please. Alot of rookie QB got beatin up their 1st season. David Carr became the crumbled mess because David Carr couldn't handle it. David Carr wouldn't be good if he had sat on the bench all those years because David Carr was not mentally tough enough to handle the job. Peyton and Aikman got beatin up just as much but, instead of crawling in a thumb sucking position. They got better so it wouldn't happen again. Only way we find out what we have in Jimmy is playing him. You don't learn from the bench you learn by playing and going thru the ups and downs.

[TheRealDeal]

I think the point he is making is that for the number of passes thrown, Moore is tossing a noticably larger number of ints. One every 10 attempts or something, which is outrageous and terrible

Clausen has less TDs per attempt and has more fumbles. On the other hand, he takes care of the ball better when he throws it.

I have been watching Clausen a bit more on highlights and replays, and comparing it to what I saw when watching him at ND. First, I don't think the quality of competition or quality of his receivers (we'll get to this) is what is causing his play. It contributes to it, but the total change I think is due to other things:

1) Clausen doesn't seem to trust the routes his players are running. He doesn't seem to think they will get open evantually, and he senses pressure and scrambles to try to find an open man.

2) He does his reads a bit early into the play and does not seem to come back to them as much. I think this goes back to #1.

3) He does not look comfortable out there, especially the last game, where he was playing scared. I don't blame him, our o-line is terrible. On one of the only plays he had great protection and sold the play action ,he flat out missed Lafell.

4) We are not getting to the line of scrimmage to survey defenses fast enough, imo. Of course, the longer we're at the line of scrimmage the more likely one of our offensive players is to just decided to run off before the snap anyway.

5) Play calling. Not only is it predictable, I think it is being done far too slowly. See #4. Is this Clausen's fault? Dunno. No idea what exactly is going on but it seems to take forever for him to get the play in, then to relay it to other players.

Take it or leave it. A lot of the above are on him; some are on his line; others on his WRs. He needs to build chemistry with these dudes, especially Smith. I wish Smith was healthy during this bye so he and Clausen could get some practice in.

Thoughtful post with some insight. I like.

[koolkatluke]

The team can't turn Jimmy into David Carr only Jimmy can do that. Either he keeps getting back up dust himself off and figures out a way stop it from happening. Or he can baby up and turn into a David Carr. Either way we find out what we have this year for the future.

[panthers55]

Could people stop the David Carr excuse please. Alot of rookie QB got beatin up their 1st season. David Carr became the crumbled mess because David Carr couldn't handle it. David Carr wouldn't be good if he had sat on the bench all those years because David Carr was not mentally tough enough to handle the job. Peyton and Aikman got beatin up just as much but, instead of crawling in a thumb sucking position. They got better so it wouldn't happen again. Only way we find out what we have in Jimmy is playing him. You don't learn from the bench you learn by playing and going thru the ups and downs.

Why do we always mention only hall of famers when talking about Clausen comparisons?/ How about one closer to home- Weinke who was our last quarterback to play at a rookie. He had a better pedigree than Clausen, much better mechanics, and had everything to be a prototypical quarterback in the league.

He played 15 games his rookie year with better results than Clausen had. He didn't fall apart, got plenty beaten up, and was as tough as Clausen is.

Problem was that when Fox came in he went with a veteran instead of 2nd year player and never really liked Weinke. There is more liklihood that

he will crap out like Weinke versus the liklihood that Clausen will turn into a hall of famer. How many current quarterbacks are future hall of famers? Have we ever had one in our history? Why is Clausen going to suddenly be one??

And I can think of 3 quarterbacks off the top of my head who sat for a few years and when they actually did come in played well from day 1. Which shoots the hell out of your theory that you can't get better sitting on the bench going to practice everyday. In fact every coach will tell you that practice is where you learn to play. Gametime is where you show what you have learned. Sure you need some of both but Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, and Matt Cassel would tell you that game expereince isn't the only place or even perhaps the best place to learn to play the game.

[CatMan72]

Why do we always mention only hall of famers when talking about Clausen comparisons?/ How about one closer to home- Weinke who was our last quarterback to play at a rookie. He had a better pedigree than Clausen, much better mechanics, and had everything to be a prototypical quarterback in the league.

He played 15 games his rookie year with better results than Clausen had. He didn't fall apart, got plenty beaten up, and was as tough as Clausen is.

Problem was that when Fox came in he went with a veteran instead of 2nd year player and never really liked Weinke. There is more liklihood that

he will crap out like Weinke versus the liklihood that Clausen will turn into a hall of famer. How many current quarterbacks are future hall of famers? Have we ever had one in our history? Why is Clausen going to suddenly be one??

And I can think of 3 quarterbacks off the top of my head who sat for a few years and when they actually did come in played well from day 1. Which shoots the hell out of your theory that you can't get better sitting on the bench going to practice everyday. In fact every coach will tell you that practice is where you learn to play. Gametime is where you show what you have learned. Sure you need some of both but Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, and Matt Cassel would tell you that game expereince isn't the only place or even perhaps the best place to learn to play the game.

I don't know how Clausen will turn out, neither do you - but I know it's foolish to pass judgement on a rookie QB after 3 starts, or start making comparisons to other rookie QB's after 3 starts.

[TheRealDeal]

Not so much passing judgment as making observations. Some people take those observations for what they are, others don't want to see what's really happening and twist it how they want it to be, or wished it would be. Most observations are just as valid as others, unless it comes from Clawsome.