How can anyone justify Moore over Clausen at this point?

[chef17]

I have a solution to make everyone happy. Moore can get us into the redzone, then Clausen can check down for a touchdown or we get a field goal. That way the Clausen and Moore homers are happy, we don't have to worry about Moore throwing picks in the endzone, and we don't have to worry about Clausen not throwing down the field.

[CatMan72]

Yeah I would. Jake could be bad or good but he was money in the fourth quarter and could lead a comeback. With Jimmy we have scored 0 points in the fourth quarter. Zero. Nada, Cypher.

Jake made lots of mistakes but Clausen right now has no potential to win a game with his play. Clausen doesn't even know what it would take to win at this point. He is nowhere ready to start in this league.

Blame it all on being a rookie but honestly even for a rookie he looks bad. Why in the world would you play him if you don't have to and frankly we don't have to play him.

Right, let's compare Clausen after 3 starts surrounded by rookie WR's to David Carr, brilliant.

Open question to anyone reading this thread, I'm going to give you 3 QB's you tell me which you would start:

• QB # 1: 5.7% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 2.5% result in touchdowns and this QB completes 55% of his passes.
  

• QB # 2: 10% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 3.5% of the passes this QB throws result in touchdowns and this QB completes 43% of his passes.
  

• QB # 3: 3.3% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 1.2% of the passes this QB throws result in touchdowns and this QB completes 47.5% of his passes.
  

Who gives you the best chance to win, who is the worst QB in this example?

[CatMan72]

That is the thing. People keep saying it is the O line's fault Clausen is getting rushed and sacked but the opposite is true as well. Clausen doesn't make the defense pay when they blitz and does nothing to throw down the field to keep folks from stacking the box. It is as much his fault as it is the line or running backs.

It's hard to make the defense pay for blitzing when nobody is getting open... I guess he should just throw it up for grabs like Moore and Delhomme did, would that satisfy you?

[chef17]

I would take QB 1. He throws 2.28 times as many INTs as TDs. QB 2 throws 2.857 times as many, QB 3 throws 2.75

[CatMan72]

I would take QB 1. He throws 2.28 times as many INTs as TDs. QB 2 throws 2.857 times as many, QB 3 throws 2.75

Right:

QB # 1 throws 2.28 times as many int's as td's.

QB # 2 throws 2.857 times as many int's as td's.

QB # 3 throws 2.75 times as many int's as td's.

Let's subtract QB # 1, who do you take next?

[chef17]

Next would be QB 3.

[panthers55]

Right, let's compare Clausen after 3 starts surrounded by rookie WR's to David Carr, brilliant.

Open question to anyone reading this thread, I'm going to give you 3 QB's you tell me which you would start:

• QB # 1: 5.7% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 2.5% result in touchdowns and this QB completes 55% of his passes.
  

• QB # 2: 10% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 3.5% of the passes this QB throws result in touchdowns and this QB completes 43% of his passes.
  

• QB # 3: 3.3% of the passes this QB throws result in interceptions while 1.2% of the passes this QB throws result in touchdowns and this QB completes 47.5% of his passes.
  

Who gives you the best chance to win, who is the worst QB in this example?

Who gives us the best chance to win?? The guy with the best winning percentage. Interceptions versus TDs aren't as relevant as you may believe if the interceptions don't result in points but if they are largely pick 6s then they are.

Who gives us the best chance to win? The guy who throws a few picks early but in the fourth quarter leads us on the winning drive.

How about the guy who completes 61% of his passes, has 7 TDs versus 2 picks, a YPA of 7.0, and a passer rating of 100. Does he give you a good chance to win?? No if he is Ryan Fitzpatrick and he starts for Buffalo.

Your examples are irrlevant because the only stat that really matters is how many points you score versus how many the opponent does. In Fitzpatrick's case they lost by 8, 24 and 10 points.

Now compare that to Matt Cassel with a 54% completion rate, a 6 YPA average, 4 TDs to 3 Ints ad a passer rating of 74. Does he give you a good chance to win?? Yeah given they are 3-1 at this point, he is a lot more likely to win than Fitzpatrick is at this point.

Comparing first three starts or rookie numbers to show that while they suck other people suck worse is hardly relevant or important at this point. I want the guy who can win the game right now and score points when we need them. Of our quarterbacks, the only one who has been there and done that is Moore.

Feel free to keep up the stupid argument that we need to keep losing with Clausen to hope he gets better. For me I want the guy who at least has shown he can score points when the game is on the line and despite 2 poor games this year, that guy is Moore. I am tired of losing with Clausen. He sucks right now. If Moore sucks the next 2 games then all bets are off. Until then why play a guy who we know would take 5 minutes to score a TD if the other defense wasn't on the field with all his 3 yard passes.

[CatMan72]

Who gives us the best chance to win?? The guy with the best winning percentage. Interceptions versus TDs aren't as relevant as you may believe if the interceptions don't result in points but if they are largely pick 6s then they are.

Who gives us the best chance to win? The guy who throws a few picks early but in the fourth quarter leads us on the winning drive.

How about the guy who completes 61% of his passes, has 7 TDs versus 2 picks, a YPA of 7.0, and a passer rating of 100. Does he give you a good chance to win?? No if he is Ryan Fitzpatrick and he starts for Buffalo.

Your examples are irrlevant because the only stat that really matters is how many points you score versus how many the opponent does. In Fitzpatrick's case they lost by 8, 24 and 10 points.

Now compare that to Matt Cassel with a 54% completion rate, a 6 YPA average, 4 TDs to 3 Ints ad a passer rating of 74. Does he give you a good chance to win?? Yeah given they are 3-1 at this point, he is a lot more likely to win than Fitzpatrick is at this point.

Sorry, but the number of times you throw a pick vs. a TD per passing attempt matters... completion % matters.

So if you have a good QB on a bad team that loses because the defense sucks, the QB sucks too?

Let's see, Trent Dilfer has won a SB and Phillip Rivers has not - so that means Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Phillip Rivers?

You can only dance around the #'s for so long... it's a simple question, all things being equal out of the 3 QB's who gives you the best chance to win?

[chef17]

Sorry, but the number of times you throw a pick vs. a TD per passing attempt matters... completion % matters.

So if you have a good QB on a bad team that loses because the defense sucks, the QB sucks too?

Let's see, Trent Dilfer has won a SB and Phillip Rivers has not - so that means Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Phillip Rivers?

You can only dance around the #'s for so long... it's a simple question, all things being equal out of the 3 QB's who gives you the best chance to win?

I agree with you that those stats do matter but they don't tell the whole story. For instance, the stats you gave don't tell us how good the run game is, which could have a huge impact on intercepts. With a good run game, the QB can throw easier and vice versa. In addition, just looking at stats don't if the QB made a bad play, a WR dropped the pass, it was deflected, or the defense just made a great play. Those things are equally as important as well, but they aren't represented in the stats.

[panthers55]

Sorry, but the number of times you throw a pick vs. a TD per passing attempt matters... completion % matters.

So if you have a good QB on a bad team that loses because the defense sucks, the QB sucks too?

Let's see, Trent Dilfer has won a SB and Phillip Rivers has not - so that means Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Phillip Rivers?

You can only dance around the #'s for so long... it's a simple question, all things being equal out of the 3 QB's who gives you the best chance to win?

Completion percentage doesn't matter that much. If you complete 50% of your passes for 4 yards a pass it isn't better than a guy who completes 45% of his passes for 7 yards a pass. What matters is how many times you move the sticks and extend drives and how many points you score. If your quarterback throws 3 picks in the first half and the opposition get a net 3 points and then you come back and throw 2 TDs in the fourth to win the game, what is more important, the picks or the TDs? Which gave you the best chance to win?

What we were talking about was who gives you the best chance to win and the answer is that a average quarterback on a great team gives you a better chance to win than a quarterback with great numbers on a sucky team.

You can dance around the stats all you want but it doesn't change the only answer that matters. Which of the three gives you the best chance to win. The quarterback whose team scores more points than the opposition whether that is running, passing, or defensive scores. The rest is just meaningless unless you are talking fantasy football.

[CatMan72]

Completion percentage doesn't matter that much. If you complete 50% of your passes for 4 yards a pass it isn't better than a guy who completes 45% of his passes for 7 yards a pass. What matters is how many times you move the sticks and extend drives and how many points you score.

What we were talking about was who gives you the best chance to win and the answer is that a average quarterback on a great team gives you a better chance to win than a quarterback with great numbers on a sucky team.

You can dance around the stats all you want but it doesn't change the only answer that matters. Which of the three gives you the best chance to win. The quarterback whose team scores more points than the opposition whether that is running, passing, or defensive scores. The rest is just meaningless unless you are talking fantasy football.

So it doesn't matter that 1 out of every 10 passes you throw is an interception?

[panthers55]

So it doesn't matter that 1 out of every 10 passes you throw is an interception?

Not if 4 out of every 10 passes you throw is a touchdown. Using isolated stats like you are out of context is why people say stats are meaningless. It isn't the numbers themselves but how they are used. So throwing an Int every 10 passes may or may not be relevant. That is why things like TD to Int ratio is a better statistic than Ints alone. So if you throw 200 passes and 20 are interceptions but 80 are TDs, does that make you good or bad? How about if you throw 200 times and 3 are INTs and 1 is a TD, does that make you better or worse than the first quarterback??

[CatMan72]

Not if 4 out of every 10 passes you throw is a touchdown. Using isolated stats like you are out of context is why people say stats are meaningless. It isn't the numbers themselves but how they are used. So throwing an Int every 10 passes may or may not be relevant. That is why things like TD to Int ratio is a better statistic than Ints alone. So if you throw 200 passes and 20 are interceptions but 80 are TDs, does that make you good or bad? How about if you throw 200 times and 3 are INTs and 1 is a TD, does that make you better or worse than the first quarterback??

Okay, so what if 10% of the passes you attempted were interceptions while 3.5% of the passes you attempted were TD's?

Is that good QB play?

[WhiteKnight]

Why don't we just play without a QB?

Direct snaps to RB's and a RB that could pass the ball if necessary.

I know, it sounds really stupid, but look at our statistics.

Could have an additional blocking back that way.