This doesn't even sound like Richardson...

[carolinarolls]

So, are you saying that no one, even a PSL owner has the right to complain about the product on the field?

Complain all you want. It's your right. It's just sounds stupid to make the argument that since you paid for it, it should be better. If it sucks in your opinion, stay home.

WTF did you guys expect this year anyway? Seriously? I know we all hope and pray and skew the camp reports to give us more hope but this team is young and only talented in spots. It is not realistic to believe we would make the playoffs this season. Getting mad about it every Monday when you know it is coming just baffles me.

[carolinarolls]

You call what we have been seeing for the past 5 weeks "playing football"?

:rofl:

Yeah, that's some pretty low standards.

See... this is the problem with your thinking. The expectation isn't wins. The expectation is that the team will put forth their best effort to win. If we were losing by 1 point, or maybe even 3 points, and had complete games with little to no errors, you'd not see the outrage.

But what's being going on is a joke. And it all started in March, when our owner attempted to play NFL Politics with our team, and dumped the veterans from the roster, and refused to shop the Free Agent market for the 2nd year in a row.

If you think that's ok, then you just sit there and defend JR's actions all you want. But don't sit here and say we don't have the right to be pissed off.

I am not defending JR. Get that straight. But its his team. If you want to do different go buy one of your own.

Hating him for what he has done is about as fruitless as it gets. I have accepted that we are gonna slide and laughing at all those out there who continue to blow up every Monday as if they actually expected us to all of a sudden look like an offense that has been playing together for a few years or look like a defense that can play 2/3 of the game in spite of having no depth.

Don't let your fandom overrule your logic and you might find the game enjoyable. The truth is that a lot of people saying the same "we just want a competitive team" thing are really pissed because we lose at home and get MORE pissed when its as ugly as yesterday. If you are telling me you are happier, not more proud, but happier when we barely lose to NO than when we get blown out by Chicago then I have no idea how to respond.

[blackcatgrowl]

If you are paying for entertainment you got entertainment. Forte put on a show.

where you are confused is you think the entertainment you "pay for" involves the Panthers not taking a big loss and that just is not the case.

You cannot pay for your team to be better than it is. Saying your are paying for entertainment and then whining all day that you were not entertained is childlike logic.

You pay for a ticket

You watch the show

If a wreck takes out your driver, the drummer was stoned, or they did not do your fav track from the 80's you have no recourse

You did not pay for things to go perfectly for you.

As a fan you have a beef. The team looks pretty terrible. But we are not entitled to great play just because we buy tickets.

You clearly do not understand how business works.

Whenever a product is sold, be it something like a tangible product, say a car with a one year warranty, or a football ticket, it is purchased with a set of expectations.

In the case of a car, people expect them to run for at least several years. Sure, the warranty might have only been a year, but you buy it with an expectation of longer service from the car than that. If the engine block cracks on day 366 of owning it, you have no recourse but to replace the engine... ergo your money was wasted on a bad car.

If I pay top dollar for entertainment, I expect to be entertained. Watching the other team run all over us is not entertainment. Doesn't change the fact that I expected the team to try and put together a plan to win. If I see us consistently get beat by 10 or more points, then its obvious that they didn't put together a good plan.

And I DO have a recourse in both cases. I can complain. I can ask for a refund. There is nothing guaranteed I will get listened to in either case, as the team or car manufacturer is not legally responsible to me. So... I'm left with one last recourse... I will no longer purchase further entertainment or cars from the people producing the poor product.

As many people are going to do.

So to say "its your fault, you shouldn't have expectations" is just simply ignorant to the way business is conducted.

[carolinarolls]

You clearly do not understand how business works.

Whenever a product is sold, be it something like a tangible product, say a car with a one year warranty, or a football ticket, it is purchased with a set of expectations.

In the case of a car, people expect them to run for at least several years. Sure, the warranty might have only been a year, but you buy it with an expectation of longer service from the car than that. If the engine block cracks on day 366 of owning it, you have no recourse but to replace the engine... ergo your money was wasted on a bad car.

If I pay top dollar for entertainment, I expect to be entertained. Watching the other team run all over us is not entertainment. Doesn't change the fact that I expected the team to try and put together a plan to win. If I see us consistently get beat by 10 or more points, then its obvious that they didn't put together a good plan.

And I DO have a recourse in both cases. I can complain. I can ask for a refund. There is nothing guaranteed I will get listened to in either case, as the team or car manufacturer is not legally responsible to me. So... I'm left with one last recourse... I will no longer purchase further entertainment or cars from the people producing the poor product.

As many people are going to do.

So to say "its your fault, you shouldn't have expectations" is just simply ignorant to the way business is conducted.

You should have expectations. Otherwise there is no demand for the product to be purchased. However you need to manage those a little better than people here are. And I have said that your voice is your wallet nothing more.. In the world of sports marketing the demand that must be created is for the consumer to buy the ticket. He/she sets his/her expectations accordingly just as with any product. The seller of the ticket makes no guarantees. If you are disappointed it is more likely that you have not properly set your expectations through proper research than the highly paid performers and organizers all had an off day at the same time.

[blackcatgrowl]

I am not defending JR. Get that straight. But its his team. If you want to do different go buy one of your own.

Hating him for what he has done is about as fruitless as it gets. I have accepted that we are gonna slide and laughing at all those out there who continue to blow up every Monday as if they actually expected us to all of a sudden look like an offense that has been playing together for a few years or look like a defense that can play 2/3 of the game in spite of having no depth.

Don't let your fandom overrule your logic and you might find the game enjoyable. The truth is that a lot of people saying the same "we just want a competitive team" thing are really pissed because we lose at home and get MORE pissed when its as ugly as yesterday. If you are telling me you are happier, not more proud, but happier when we barely lose to NO than when we get blown out by Chicago then I have no idea how to respond.

All this really says to me is that you aren't really a true Panthers fan.

I don't care if it's a home game or an away game, if you can sit there and be entertained by our team getting stomped flat, looking like poo and not playing a complete game, then you've got no passion for this team. If you gave a poo, you'd be cussing every Monday like the rest of us until we get a W.

You might as well be on a Bears forum being positive about their win.

You should have expectations. Otherwise there is no demand for the product to be purchased. However you need to manage those a little better than people here are. And I have said that your voice is your wallet nothing more.. In the world of sports marketing the demand that must be created is for the consumer to buy the ticket. He/she sets his/her expectations accordingly just as with any product. The seller of the ticket makes no guarantees. If you are disappointed it is more likely that you have not properly set your expectations through proper research than the highly paid performers and organizers all had an off day at the same time.

See comments above.

[Montsta]

Put Armanti Edwards in as QB and stop playing Clausen. Clausen couldn't QB his way out of a paper bag. Moore wasn't the answer. Edwards IS the answer. Then you will all think that Richardson and the others are geniuses.

If Jimmy Clausen ever finds himself in a situation where being a great QB will get him out of a paper bag, well...

...I don't even know where to go with that.

[GRWatcher]

People, 2 other teams remain winless, Buffalo & San Francisco. Both reacted off-the-wall when the salary cap was instituted. Buffalo went as cheap as it could (although not as cheap as JR has this year without a cap) and San Francisco spent way above the cap. Both actions were seen as owner protests. Both still suck today because of continuing owner decisions.

My thought is that I'm not at all sure I can trust JR to make the decisions even going forward to put a winning team on the field. The rest of the league may hate Jerry Jones & Dan Snyder but their fans love them. Why? Because every year they are attempting to put a winning team together. That it sometimes doesn't work out that way is not because of the FO and owner.

Even the sportscaster from the most Panther-supportive tv station in Charlotte started out last night by saying that this team's troubles all started in the off season when Jerry Richardson decided to go cheap with how this team was built.

I've been saying all this since last March. Have given many reasons why this won't work from every viewpoint I could think of. Now there are a million threads about it and whining everywhere. Well, Huddlers, you got what you asked for. A team built for Madden.

I'm a PSL owner and, yes, I will continue to fork over the money every year for the tickets. It is after all football. Was never a high spender at the stadium and I won't ever be.

[carolinarolls]

hilarious

I have been accused for being a fake fan for bashing on the QB, coaches, gameplan, owner, beer lines and parking attendents two years ago.

I have been accused now for being a fake fan for not flaming after every game and pointing out that fans should manage their expectations and maybe they would not get so fumed.

funny board

the ironoic part is that when ranted and raved about ineptitude and lack of heart and terrible coaching choices we had a team that could win and I was still attacked for it.

Now that we have a team that really has no chance at making any noise at all and I have leveled my hope to something more realistic and explaining thusly I am being portrayed as a passion-less non-fan.

This place is comical. Maybe its all the noobs that signed up the bye week leading up to the Arizona game two seasons back.

[blackcatgrowl]

carolinarolls

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Wouldn't be talking about yourself would you?

:rofl:

Seriously. WTF do you expect people to say?

"Oh... it's ok. The Panthers can suck. It's just means we will have a better draft next year!"

Here's a reality check for you... most people see us this way:

And IF you are a fan, you SHOULD be pissed.

[Panthers_Lover]

I don't think any sensible fan is going to be happy with "it's a money thing" when the product they get for THEIR money is piss poor.

Oh my new car doesn't work worth poo "it's a money thing" next years car will totally be better.

No one takes that attitude they just never buy that car company's cars again.

Simple solution. Stop giving him your money.

[MaineManPanther]

All this really says to me is that you aren't really a true Panthers fan.

I don't care if it's a home game or an away game, if you can sit there and be entertained by our team getting stomped flat, looking like poo and not playing a complete game, then you've got no passion for this team. If you gave a poo, you'd be cussing every Monday like the rest of us until we get a W.

You might as well be on a Bears forum being positive about their win.

See comments above.

Obviously, people would perfer a win. However there is no logical reason to make yourself upset over a football game you can have no outcome over.

[Panthers_Lover]

Hardees AND Denny's actually.

He also ran Quincy’s Steakhouse into the ground.

Jerry Richardson was managing all this as the President and CEO of the new defunct, Transworld Corporation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_World_Corporation

http://www.knowitall.org/legacy/laureates/Jerry%20Richardson.html

Not the best track record for business ventures IMHO.

Really?

In 1995, Richardson’s Flagstar Corporation was the largest publicly held company based in South Carolina, with interests in over 2500 restaurants among other holdings and over 100,000 employees. He retired from Flagstar later that year in order to devote his full time to yet another direction.

[Guild]

Obviously, people would perfer a win. However there is no logical reason to make yourself upset over a football game you can have no outcome over.

Emotions rarely correspond with logical reasoning.

[blackcatgrowl]

Obviously, people would perfer a win. However there is no logical reason to make yourself upset over a football game you can have no outcome over.

You're right. We never should logically get upset about a football game.

Nor should I get upset if someone robs me at gun point... it's just money. I'll make more.

Nor should I get upset if someone breaks into my house and trashes it... I can fix it up.

Nor should I get upset if someone smashes my car with a sledgehammer... it's just a car. I can buy another.

Nor should I get upset if someone wants to cut my nuts off... I can get testosterone treatments and still grow facial hair.

We can just sit around a campfire man, and sing kumbaya. It doesn't matter if the Panthers suck. It's just football.