If first round QBs are "destined busts" as people like to refer them to...

[frash.exe]

When did anyone in this thread ever say they don't want a QB taken in the first?

The point is there hasn't really been an opportunity to draft a good QB. Fox and Hurney generally go wit BPA and they obviously haven't seen a QB in the first round that was.

History has proven their judgement to be correct.

But I guess they could improve by taking a QB in the first just for the hell of it even though it's quite clear we've gotten better players in the past doing otherwise.

Wow, so the older Jake gets and the worse and worse he plays over time makes him even more trusted in the eyes of fans. Maybe the Steelers organization should've felt the same way for an aging Tommy Maddox after mediocre performances. Big Ben the Big Bust would've never been drafted then and the Steelers would've won every superbowl between 2003 and 2007 instead of just one.

You know I think Jake's success gave everybody the impression that finding a needle in the haystack QB sounds a lot easier than it actually is.

You say in this thread nobody said they wouldn't like a QB but over the years on this board I've heard otherwise. I've heard people loathe even the thought of it on here.

And there HAS been opportunities for Hurney to pick QBs, like I previously mentioned here.

you say "just for the hell of it" like there is absolutely no reason for it.

[Fox007]

When did anyone in this thread ever say they don't want a QB taken in the first?

The point is there hasn't really been an opportunity to draft a good QB. Fox and Hurney generally go wit BPA and they obviously haven't seen a QB in the first round that was.

History has proven their judgement to be correct.

But I guess they could improve by taking a QB in the first just for the hell of it even though it's quite clear we've gotten better players in the past doing otherwise.

I'm not anti Fox or anti Hurney when it comes to the draft, I'm just being objective.

Also, just because you think it is ok to draft a QB in round 1 or w/e doesn't mean you want your team to do it.

My whole thing was against the notion that drafting a QB early was a dumb idea, or stupid, not against our drafts.

However, they really have been slack on our QB situation as a whole.

[Delhommey]

You're right. We should have taken Patrick Ramsey or Joey Harrington.

How are you not a GM?

[Fox007]

You're right. We should have taken Patrick Ramsey or Joey Harrington.

How are you not a GM?

Joey Harrington looked pretty sharp vs us.

[mountainpantherfan]

When did anyone in this thread ever say they don't want a QB taken in the first?

The point is there hasn't really been an opportunity to draft a good QB. Fox and Hurney generally go wit BPA and they obviously haven't seen a QB in the first round that was.

History has proven their judgement to be correct.

But I guess they could improve by taking a QB in the first just for the hell of it even though it's quite clear we've gotten better players in the past doing otherwise.

I agree with you on taking a QB in the 1st, although Davis and Rodgers in 05 is questionable. But when you go to the 2nd round I don't think you can have the same arguement.

In 2003 they passed on Matt Schaub and picked Keary Colbert instead.

In 2006 they passed on Tavaris Jackson in favor of Richard Marshall. Probably a good decision but Marshall still isn't a starter and Jackson was the starting QB of a playoff team this year so...

In 2007 they passed on Trent Edwards for Dwayne Jarrett and Ryan Kalil. Kalil is great but I would take Edwards over Jarrett any day.

Not every year is going to present itself with a QB for a certain team to draft but the Panther have had at least 3 oppurtunities in the 2nd round to get a QB who is now starting in the NFL.

If they passed on these QB's simply because they drafted who they thought was the BPA then I have no problem at all with their decission. However, if they didn't draft these QBs because either they don't beleive in drafting QBs on the first day of the draft or because of their loyalty to Delhomme then these were bad decisions and the team needs to re-evaluate their willingness to draft QB on the 1st day.

[Fox007]

I agree with you on taking a QB in the 1st, although Davis and Rodgers in 05 is questionable. But when you go to the 2nd round I don't think you can have the same arguement.

In 2003 they passed on Matt Schaub and picked Keary Colbert instead.

In 2006 they passed on Tavaris Jackson in favor of Richard Marshall. Probably a good decision but Marshall still isn't a starter and Jackson was the starting QB of a playoff team this year so...

In 2007 they passed on Trent Edwards for Dwayne Jarrett and Ryan Kalil. Kalil is great but I would take Edwards over Jarrett any day.

Not every year is going to present itself with a QB for a certain team to draft but the Panther have had at least 3 oppurtunities in the 2nd round to get a QB who is now starting in the NFL.

If they passed on these QB's simply because they drafted who they thought was the BPA then I have no problem at all with their decission. However, if they didn't draft these QBs because either they don't beleive in drafting QBs on the first day of the draft or because of their loyalty to Delhomme then these were bad decisions and the team needs to re-evaluate their willingness to draft QB on the 1st day.

Colbert over Schaub is indeed a travesty

[frash.exe]

Delhomme's last two playoff performances:

32/69 (46%) 401 yds 2 tds 8 ints

A QB WE CAN BELIEVE IN

[mountainpantherfan]

Colbert over Schaub is indeed a travesty

That one actually made me cry a little when I wrote it.

[frash.exe]

Let me add another point.

A lot of people were heavy on the Titans as a postseason favorite. After all, they had the classic mold of an old-school team. Strong running game, strong defense, game-managing QB (Collins)

But it turned out when his name was called, Kerry couldn't step up, and was largely ineffective and picked off more than once.

This isn't 1991. You don't get far without a QB who can take you distance when his name is called upon. Just having a "game manager" isn't going to cut it.

[chbright]

well dammit, i went throw 2007 to 2003 and had a list of drafted qbs, but hit something and lost it. that said, of the current starters, its around 50-50 on guys we could have taken to guys that we had no shot at. of that quite a few in 05 we missed

Jason Campbell (1st)

Aaron Rodgers (1st)

Kyle Orton (5th)

Derek Anderson (6th)

04

Matt Schaub

02

David Garrard in the 5th

07

Tyler Thigpen 7th

Trent Edwards 3rd (instead of charles johnson likely atm, but edwards is a bit brittle)

quinn (maybe, but still early)

others too early

08

flacco instead of stewie.

others too early

there have been countless others that were drafted early and late that had talent and flopped for whatever reason and may have succeeded here, but so far, we have done ok in the not biting on a qb. now 05 and 04 we missed (esp 04 with colbert, and 05 in passing on orton instead going Atiyyah Ellison DOH).

no shots in same time frame:

Matt Ryan

JaMarcus Russell

Vince Young (who knows at this point roty last year nothing this year)

Matt Leinart (not looking good, but still a bit early)

Jay Cutler (arg i wish)

Alex D. Smith (thank god)

Eli Manning (arg)

Philip Rivers (arg)

Ben Roethlisberger (arg)

J.P. Losman (thank god so far)

Carson Palmer (arg)

Byron Leftwich (idk looked ok in pitt, but otherwise thank god)

most starters on the list actually come from the 1st.

from what i have seen the 1st is a boom or bust land with qbs (didnt list oter 1st that we had a shot at that did nothing, or are busts). that shouldnt mean we stay away, as when you land 1, they generally turn out pretty f*cking good. at the same time alot of the bust have been throw to the wolves early before the rest of the O was ready. i have no problem taking a high one if we are also going to wait 2-3 years to develop him 1st. currently that is a great option for the offense. we have a bunch of peices in place to make that work if we resign gross(relatively young line, young backs, wr youth is a ? going forward).

looking back i cant say i am extremely pissed we have passed on qbs in the draft. are there some that i go "damn wish we got _______". yeah, could say that every year, but for the most part we have done well in the draft. the years that stands out 05 and 04 so far. 05 was a disaster, and could have had our current starter worked out in schaub. other than orton, anderson and schaub, so far i cant say we have made huge gaffs (7th rounders are almost all crap shoots). the real test of this comes in 2-3 years when we see what becomes of the 06-08 classes. trying to judge them now is really questionable.

[mountainpantherfan]

Let me add another point.

A lot of people were heavy on the Titans as a postseason favorite. After all, they had the classic mold of an old-school team. Strong running game, strong defense, game-managing QB (Collins)

But it turned out when his name was called, Kerry couldn't step up, and was largely ineffective and picked off more than once.

This isn't 1991. You don't get far without a QB who can take you distance when his name is called upon. Just having a "game manager" isn't going to cut it.

Eh, I think Collins problem was more due to his lack of mobility and age than it was his "managing" style of play. Big Ben is very similar to Collins as a game manager that can make some bad decissions but his youth and mobility that allow for that big play ever once in a while is the difference.

But overall I agree with your point of investing in a "quality" QB.

[frash.exe]

Eh, I think Collins problem was more due to his lack of mobility and age than it was his "managing" style of play. Big Ben is very similar to Collins as a game manager that can make some bad decissions but his youth and mobility that allow for that big play ever once in a while is the difference.

But overall I agree with your point of investing in a "quality" QB.

that's part of my point. Collins is a whole 2 years older than Jake.

[mountainpantherfan]

well dammit, i went throw 2007 to 2003 and had a list of drafted qbs, but hit something and lost it. that said, of the current starters, its around 50-50 on guys we could have taken to guys that we had no shot at. of that quite a few in 05 we missed

Jason Campbell (1st)

Aaron Rodgers (1st)

Kyle Orton (5th)

Derek Anderson (6th)

04

Matt Schaub

03

David Garrard in the 5th

07

Tyler Thigpen 7th

Trent Edwards 3rd (instead of charles johnson likely atm, but edwards is a bit brittle)

quinn (maybe, but still early)

others too early

08

flacco instead of stewie.

others too early

there have been countless others that were drafted early and late that had talent and flopped for whatever reason and may have succeeded here, but so far, we have done ok in the not biting on a qb. now 05 and 04 we missed (esp 04 with colbert, and 05 in passing on orton instead going Atiyyah Ellison DOH).

no shots in same time frame:

Matt Ryan

JaMarcus Russell

Vince Young (who knows at this point roty last year nothing this year)

Matt Leinart (not looking good, but still a bit early)

Jay Cutler (arg i wish)

Alex D. Smith (thank god)

Eli Manning (arg)

Philip Rivers (arg)

Ben Roethlisberger (arg)

J.P. Losman (thank god so far)

Carson Palmer (arg)

Byron Leftwich (idk looked ok in pitt, but otherwise thank god)

most starters on the list actually come from the 1st.

from what i have seen the 1st is a boom or bust land with qbs (didnt list oter 1st that we had a shot at that did nothing, or are busts). that shouldnt mean we stay away, as when you land 1, they generally turn out pretty f*cking good. at the same time alot of the bust have been throw to the wolves early before the rest of the O was ready. i have no problem taking a high one if we are also going to wait 2-3 years to develop him 1st. currently that is a great option for the offense. we have a bunch of peices in place to make that work if we resign gross(relatively young line, young backs, wr youth is a ? going forward).

looking back i cant say i am extremely pissed we have passed on qbs in the draft. are there some that i go "damn wish we got _______". yeah, could say that every year, but for the most part we have done well in the draft. the years that stands out 05 and 04 so far. 05 was a disaster, and could have had our current starter worked out in schaub. other than orton, anderson and schaub, so far i cant say we have made huge gaffs (7th rounders are almost all crap shoots). the real test of this comes in 2-3 years when we see what becomes of the 06-08 classes. trying to judge them now is really questionable.

Great research!

Like I said, its not that I question their picks if they were truely going on BPA on the Panthers board. But if they just eliminated QB altogether from their board until the second day or more than that is what I would be pissed about.

And yeah, the 05 draft was a complete disatster for the Panthers. Hurney and Fox must have been smoking pot or something the night before that draft or something.

[chbright]

i missed t/ jack in that, but is he a starter or is it gus. bah still trying to judge the 06 class even now is a question.

really it hinges on moore, if he turns out we look smart. if not we are gona be in trouble and look like idiots for not addressing this earlier or we pull out a FA again (ie get lucky)