The Cardinals' defensive line

[Cyberjag]

Arizona is making a run this year because the defense is playing above their ability once they made it in the playoffs. Same as us in 2003. You can make it to the playoffs with a good defense or good offense. But once the playoffs begin you have to have production on both sides of the ball in order to win. The players are playing extremely aggressively, swarming to the ball with great energy. Something that we sorely lacked and really was the difference in the game. Philly has an aggressive defense as well and helped them get back in the game.

Without Peppers we will have to have a much better scheme. I just don't see Trgo having the ability to change his philosophy and personality to be more aggressive and deceptive. The last time I saw it was in the first half against the Colts in 2007. Otherwise we will back to what happened last year with little pressure and no Peppers.

Agree and disagree. We didn't play with that energy on our line, and IMHO you can point to the lack of leadership on the field in that unit as a reason why.

I think Trgovac's problem is in how complex he makes his defenses. That's all well and good when you have a bunch of veterans, but now we're too young. It was simple earlier in the year and that worked really well for us. He showed he can change than, the question is WILL he. I don't think he'll get the opportunity to show us.

[Cyberjag]

So we're going to start blitzing more from the linebacker position to cover up problems on the d-line? The staff obviously thought we weren't competent in man on man coverage which was why we played zone so much. So now we're going to compensate for losing Peppers by exposing a weakness that the coaches already think we have? Sounds like a plan.

What do you think, that we're going to do the same old same old and hope that Johnson plays better than Peppers did? You play to your personnel and the rules, and if they don't have someone of Peppers' caliber they'll come up with another way to apply the pressure.

It's not like we've never blitzed before, you know.

[KillerKat]

Agree and disagree. We didn't play with that energy on our line, and IMHO you can point to the lack of leadership on the field in that unit as a reason why.

I think Trgovac's problem is in how complex he makes his defenses. That's all well and good when you have a bunch of veterans, but now we're too young. It was simple earlier in the year and that worked really well for us. He showed he can change than, the question is WILL he. I don't think he'll get the opportunity to show us.

I don't put blame on the players for poor defensive play schemes. They weren't complex, they were just ineffective. And he never changed.

What do you think, that we're going to do the same old same old and hope that Johnson plays better than Peppers did? You play to your personnel and the rules, and if they don't have someone of Peppers' caliber they'll come up with another way to apply the pressure.

It's not like we've never blitzed before, you know.

He's been running the same scheme ever since he got here.

[KillerKat]

no, i agree with you that he needs to go, but the scheme has changed. in 05 we ran a man coverage, and it produced more turnovers than any team in the league that year. i dont know when we switched to this bullsh*t zone coverage, but i think it was last season or 06.

Probably 06 cause thats when i started getting pissed at him.

[Cyberjag]

I don't put blame on the players for poor defensive play schemes. They weren't complex, they were just ineffective. And he never changed.

He's been running the same scheme ever since he got here.

When Minter was playing well, we ran press coverage routinely. We've been giving a nice cushion for the past few years, which kind of coincides with questionable play at the free safety position. As Godfrey gets better we'll bring that back, assuming he returns for another year.

If you think it's so hopeless though, why not take a year off from rooting for/watching/posting about the Panthers if Trgo isn't fired?

[KillerKat]

When Minter was playing well, we ran press coverage routinely. We've been giving a nice cushion for the past few years, which kind of coincides with questionable play at the free safety position. As Godfrey gets better we'll bring that back, assuming he returns for another year.

We've been giving 20 yards to the receiver for the past 3 seasons now. What makes you think that'll change?

Im not like you, I dont think he'll suddenly change. Hes been doing the same bullshit for a while. Its time for him to go.

[Cyberjag]

We've been giving 20 yards to the receiver for the past 3 seasons now. What makes you think that'll change?

Im not like you, I dont think he'll suddenly change. Hes been doing the same bullsh*t for a while. Its time for him to go.

Well, for starters he obviously changed three seasons ago, right? This year he started a rookie at Free Safety, and that rookie looked good. If he has confidence in his safety play, I think he goes back to the press he employed in his first few years on the job. So I guess I'm not saying he'll change, I'm saying he'll change back.

Anyway, I think he'll be gone and it will be up to the next guy to piss everyone off. Still, if he's back they'll adjust. They have to, and they know it.

[yasuhara2241]

I do think Henning is a better OC than Davidson. Can you imagine what he would have done with this year's OL, Williams, and Stewart? He threw to the backs a lot, ran screens to Smitty all the time, and almost never threw the ball without play-action. Look at how he used Williams as a rookie, you saw the wildcat against Atlanta two years ago. Think Davidson would have done that? I don't, and I have yet to see anything out of his playcalling to suggest otherwise. Had Henning called the game against Arizona, you can bet we wouldn't have quit running after the second series.

Henning ran his course here, but that doesn't make him a bad OC. Neither does this season define Trgovac--he's been a good DC since he started and he remains one. I appreciate the fact that you think you're smarter than Fox and understand how awful his staff is in ways he doesn't, but you're just a lonely voice on a message board and I put a lot more value in what his actions say he thinks. Sorry if I burst any bubbles there, but it is what it is.

Contradiction much? Dont bash our defensive coach or head coach but our offensive coach who has just given us the best running game in the history of our franchise...well i have seen quite a few threads with you saying how bad he is.

I just find it interesting how you can say Henning is so much better than Davidson when Davidson has been here for a whole two seasons. How come you cant say that our running success on our new offensive schemes by our new OC.

The way I look at it...OCs, DCs and head coaches need to be held accountable for the success.

In saying that the same thing goes to the defense. Our defense has not been playing up to par and somebody needs to be accountable why cant we ask the DC to be that person?

[Cyberjag]

I think Hurney gave us our best running game in the history of our franchise, and Henning would have used it to death last week. That's no contradiction, it's based on the style he employed in his career here and in Miami. Davidson may be better than Henning someday, and I hope he continues to improve, but he's not as good yet, particularly in adjustments and calling a game. We've invested heavily in the offense in the past few years, and he's a big beneficiary.

I think the DC is accountable for the performance of our defense last year. I've stated that I don't think he'll be back (everyone who wants him fired seems to think he's staying around though). I also think that he's had a nice history here, and has shown a lot of ability in the past. Had this been his first year, well I would be right with you saying that he sucks. But he's fielded some damn good units, and I think he'll do so again.

We're not going to have a star on the line next year. I bet it performs pretty well despite that.

[MaineManPanther]

Let's not make this about Peppers and his development, ok? The guy will prove us wrong or right in another system.

Watch the offseason--we're going to collect defensive linemen like kids collect baseball cards. The coaches will shuffle them, mix and match, and decide on a combination that plays well. Look for a more straight-up effort out of them, and I'm pretty sure that the staff will compensate for the lack of pressure by bringing the LBs in more often. Our secondary will be better--Godfrey isn't going to be a rookie any more and good safety play makes blitzing less risky.

Why do I think this? Well, I think that over the last half of our season our defense pretty much stunk. Fox is a good coach, and he works well with his assistants. Clearly there was a problem, and you can bet that a big part of the offseason will be spent with the defensive staff examining the strengths and weaknesses of the current personnel. They'll take their journeymen line and come out with a style that maximizes their potential.

This year was embarrassing for them--it had to be. They've been near the top before, so you know they can do it, and I'm betting they'll be back in a big way next year.

:thumbsup:

I agree completley.

Turgovac and our defensive coaching staff have gotten us high ranked defences in previous years . He has proven that he can can handle and make this defence very good before, so how is he now somehow inept in doing it agian?

As far as Pepper goes we wont be able replace his precence a with one single player, no one we come across will be like Julius. However we can get alot from FA and the draft and use them to tinker and rework our Dline.

While not a perfect one, a good example is our oline . We went from avearge to one of the best O-line in the game in just one offseason. We tinkered, adjusted using our roster, FA, and the draft to fix it. Granted we had a great player in Gross, but the overall point reamins the same.

[MadHatter]

The difference in Arizona and our DL......Arizona's DC was agressive and got after it. Our does not.