The Cardinals' defensive line

[Fox007]

People are moaning about losing a defensive star, but it's a team sport. You don't have to have superstars at every position to excel. When we had a great line our linebackers were pedestrian at best. Now we have great linebackers and our line is iffy. Well, look at the Cards--they're winning with a collection of so-so players on the line right now. It can be done, and I believe we can do it next year.

Yea and we are saying they are winning with so-so players because of their coaches.

Also, most of the people who are bitching about Peppers leaving are guys like you. Those pro Fox guys, and pro Jake guys.

I don't care if Peppers leaves.............it is his choice, he honored his contract.(and i don't blame him one bit)

He is also leaving in a classy manner, unlike what some other people are posting.

[Cyberjag]

No mention of Bert Berry?

Bert Berry, taken in the 3rd round of the 97 draft by the Colts.

[stankowalski]

You're right, he was our most talented defensive lineman. He was our highest draft pick ever, he was the most physically gifted player we ever had, and once he decided he wanted out last year he went through the motions. This year he showed us what he could do at times when he was auditioning for a new team.

Trgovac has tried all kinds of ways to use him to unleash his potential, but only Peppers can do that. Now that he's trying to coach the line as a unit instead of a disappearing star and three other guys, maybe he'll get better results.

Most of what you are basing your argument on is pure speculation and hyperbole. It's clear your mind is made up and so is mine. Turdo needs to go either way.

[Cyberjag]

Sorry, but this thread is about coaching. You brought up guy's that aren't superstars but yet are working together in the playoffs with a great outcome. That stems from coaching.

Peppers was the only great d-lineman we had. He averaged 10 sacks a year and just registered his highest sack total of the year with 14.5. He didnt have much help elsewhere on the line. Now that he's going to be gone, our defensive line is going to take a big hit. Yeah we have other guys on the line that are decent, but they aren't very good and aren't consistant. Thats not working together as a unit with a great outcome and that stems from coaching.

The coaches here have gotten a lot out of mediocre units in the past. And units that aren't particularly long on talent can learn to play together well and outperform expectations. It's not THAT unusual, particularly with good on-the-field leadership.

Yea and we are saying they are winning with so-so players because of their coaches.

Also, most of the people who are bitching about Peppers leaving are guys like you. Those pro Fox guys, and pro Jake guys.

I don't care if Peppers leaves.............it is his choice, he honored his contract.(and i don't blame him one bit)

He is also leaving in a classy manner, unlike what some other people are posting.

Um, I'm not sad to see him go. Honestly I think that some young talent acquired through whatever we get for him will more than make up for his absence.

[Cyberjag]

Most of what you are basing your argument on is pure speculation and hyperbole. It's clear your mind is made up and so is mine. Turdo needs to go either way.

Speculation, hyperbole, and the fact that I've seen just about every snap Peppers has ever played for the Panthers and can't think of any position inside the box in which he hasn't lined up.

[stankowalski]

Speculation, hyperbole, and the fact that I've seen just about every snap Peppers has ever played for the Panthers and can't think of any position inside the box in which he hasn't lined up.

I'll admit that lining Peppers up in different positions was a good idea, but unfortunately that doesn't do a whole lot of good if the defense in the secondary is allowing quick completions.

[KillerKat]

You're right, he was our most talented defensive lineman. He was our highest draft pick ever, he was the most physically gifted player we ever had, and once he decided he wanted out last year he went through the motions. This year he showed us what he could do at times when he was auditioning for a new team.

Trgovac has tried all kinds of ways to use him to unleash his potential, but only Peppers can do that. Now that he's trying to coach the line as a unit instead of a disappearing star and three other guys, maybe he'll get better results.

I totally disagree with that assesment. Droping Peppers back into coverage is not trying to unleash his potential. Even Peppers said he wasn't being used to his full potential. So either Pep or Trgo is lying and I don't believe it's Pep.

[KillerKat]

The coaches here have gotten a lot out of mediocre units in the past. And units that aren't particularly long on talent can learn to play together well and outperform expectations. It's not THAT unusual, particularly with good on-the-field leadership.

If they didn't work together well as a unit this season, what makes you think they will next season with the same coordinator?

[Cyberjag]

I'll admit that lining Peppers up in different positions was a good idea, but unfortunately that doesn't do a whole lot of good if the defense in the secondary is allowing quick completions.

Let's not make this about Peppers and his development, ok? The guy will prove us wrong or right in another system.

Watch the offseason--we're going to collect defensive linemen like kids collect baseball cards. The coaches will shuffle them, mix and match, and decide on a combination that plays well. Look for a more straight-up effort out of them, and I'm pretty sure that the staff will compensate for the lack of pressure by bringing the LBs in more often. Our secondary will be better--Godfrey isn't going to be a rookie any more and good safety play makes blitzing less risky.

Why do I think this? Well, I think that over the last half of our season our defense pretty much stunk. Fox is a good coach, and he works well with his assistants. Clearly there was a problem, and you can bet that a big part of the offseason will be spent with the defensive staff examining the strengths and weaknesses of the current personnel. They'll take their journeymen line and come out with a style that maximizes their potential.

This year was embarrassing for them--it had to be. They've been near the top before, so you know they can do it, and I'm betting they'll be back in a big way next year.

[Davidson Deac II]

Well, I do agree with one thing. When a team is having trouble pressuring a QB, the best pass rusher you have should not be dropped into coverage, at least not very often.

[panthers55]

Arizona is making a run this year because the defense is playing above their ability once they made it in the playoffs. Same as us in 2003. You can make it to the playoffs with a good defense or good offense. But once the playoffs begin you have to have production on both sides of the ball in order to win. The players are playing extremely aggressively, swarming to the ball with great energy. Something that we sorely lacked and really was the difference in the game. Philly has an aggressive defense as well and helped them get back in the game.

Without Peppers we will have to have a much better scheme. I just don't see Trgo having the ability to change his philosophy and personality to be more aggressive and deceptive. The last time I saw it was in the first half against the Colts in 2007. Otherwise we will back to what happened last year with little pressure and no Peppers.

[Cyberjag]

And the point of all of it is that we're going to do fine without a star on the defensive line. That's going to be true if Trgovac is back, or if there's a new staff in town. John Beason, Chris Harris, Thomas Davis, and Chris Gamble are all outstanding players. Godfrey shows a lot of signs that he's going to be a stud. Lucas and Diggs, if either return, are both good enough to start on most rosters. That's quite a collection of players to build a defense around.

[KillerKat]

Arizona is making a run this year because the defense is playing above their ability once they made it in the playoffs. Same as us in 2003. You can make it to the playoffs with a good defense or good offense. But once the playoffs begin you have to have production on both sides of the ball in order to win. The players are playing extremely aggressively, swarming to the ball with great energy. Something that we sorely lacked and really was the difference in the game. Philly has an aggressive defense as well and helped them get back in the game.

Without Peppers we will have to have a much better scheme. I just don't see Trgo having the ability to change his philosophy and personality to be more aggressive and deceptive. The last time I saw it was in the first half against the Colts in 2007. Otherwise we will back to what happened last year with little pressure and no Peppers.

Well said.

[stankowalski]

Let's not make this about Peppers and his development, ok? The guy will prove us wrong or right in another system.

Watch the offseason--we're going to collect defensive linemen like kids collect baseball cards. The coaches will shuffle them, mix and match, and decide on a combination that plays well. Look for a more straight-up effort out of them, and I'm pretty sure that the staff will compensate for the lack of pressure by bringing the LBs in more often. Our secondary will be better--Godfrey isn't going to be a rookie any more and good safety play makes blitzing less risky.

Why do I think this? Well, I think that over the last half of our season our defense pretty much stunk. Fox is a good coach, and he works well with his assistants. Clearly there was a problem, and you can bet that a big part of the offseason will be spent with the defensive staff examining the strengths and weaknesses of the current personnel. They'll take their journeymen line and come out with a style that maximizes their potential.

This year was embarrassing for them--it had to be. They've been near the top before, so you know they can do it, and I'm betting they'll be back in a big way next year.

So we're going to start blitzing more from the linebacker position to cover up problems on the d-line? The staff obviously thought we weren't competent in man on man coverage which was why we played zone so much. So now we're going to compensate for losing Peppers by exposing a weakness that the coaches already think we have? Sounds like a plan.