Clausen versus Weinke- a better comparison

[CLTPanther]

Moore sucks and his ceiling for potential has already been met, get over it already.

[Floppin]

The problem with the "get smith the ball no matter what rabble rabble rabble" argument is that it's spouted by the majority of the people who say "we don't develope a #2 receiver rabble rabble rabble".

A number #2 receiver is never going to pull the double coverage off of Smith until he proves a threat. In order to prove a threat you have to catch balls. In order to catch balls Clausen has to throw the ball to him. This is going to piss off all the Smith nut huggers and people who have him on their fantasy team, but the reality is that forcing the ball to Steve Smith DOESN'T WORK anymore.

CRA is talking about Moore's ability to get Smith the ball. Sure he did get him the ball a few times in the first two games. But how many picks and near picks did he have from forcing him the ball? How many of those reads would have been more open if just one of those three assholes defending him was forced to roll coverage to another receiver?

The sad fact is that we have to develop our other receivers and if Smith has a temper tantrum because he's not getting the ball so be it. It has to happen if we are going to win. I understand that he's a competitive guy and wants to win and I understand that all true panther fans want to see him with 2000 yards and another triple crown, but jesus guys. You bitch and moan about having no wrinkles in the offense and no other receivers and then at the same time bitch about Smith not getting the ball every pass. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[CRA]

I am somewhat curious how you are so sure who is Clausen's first read, second read, etc. Is it just that I watch the game at a quality where I can't see into his eyes or something? I see his head turning and moving slightly so I assume he is looking through different reads. that, I can't imagine that a 20 yard pass to Gettis is a first read.

his first read is the one he comes out of the snap stares down. Not sure what his 2nd read is b/c he either throws or bails out of the pocket.

[CRA]

They have similar statlines despite the fact that Jimmy played tougher competition and didn't have the support of one of the greatest defenses in the NFL. It's telling your argument is weak though since you keep backpedaling and try to change the focus of the discussion.

stats lines are stats lines.....Jimmy Clausen had a better rating than Brees by a far margin going into the 4th quarter. That didn't reflect play.

The Bengals suck and Jimmy was put in incredible scenarios....and the Saints have a weak D.

No packpeddling here. You are just trying to claim Jimmy is doing stuff he simply isn't yet.

[Raskle]

Moore sucks and his ceiling for potential has already been met, get over it already.

So, which NFL team are you working for again? Must be nice to have that great of a prognostication ability...

I'm not saying to start Moore again. At this point, let the dice roll where they may with Clausen - unless, and this is a big unless, it begins to show that it is hurting his development more being in there rather than watching from the sidelines and learning.

But to say that about either player at this point is stupid. Not enough time to judge fully what their abilities may or may not be.

[CLTPanther]

I watched Moore play, that's how I know he sucks.

[PanthersPhan18]

Everyone is talking about Clausen versus Bradford but honestly what about Clausen against our very own Chris Weinke who was a fourth rounder who never developed.

Weinke game 1- 13-22 for 223 yards- 1TD- win against Minnesota

Weinke game 2- 27-41 for 276 yards- 0 TDs- loss to Atlanta

Clausen- game 1- 16-33 for 188 yards- 0TD- loss to Cincinnatti

Clausen game 2- 11-21 for 146 yards- 1TD- loss to the Saints.

Weinke's offense scored 20 points a game- Clausen's 10 points.

Look at who Weinke had around him- no better cast than Clausen, in fact you could argue it was worse.

Go back and look at Collins first 2 starts as well and you will clearly see that right now Clausen is the 3rd best rookie we have had start for us behind Weinke and Collins. And that doesn't bode that well for the future.

Weinke was 29, Clausen just turned 23.

[Squirrel]

Ok let compare him with other recent rookie QB's.

Rothlenburger

Matt Ryan

[thefuzz]

stats lines are stats lines.....Jimmy Clausen had a better rating than Brees by a far margin going into the 4th quarter. That didn't reflect play.

The Bengals suck and Jimmy was put in incredible scenarios....and the Saints have a weak D.

No packpeddling here. You are just trying to claim Jimmy is doing stuff he simply isn't yet.

The Bengals suck????

No wonder no one on this board is listening to a word you say about our QB's.

[Carl Spackler]

I don't know what he means by "incredible scenarios." Only one I've seen with him in is King's 3rd-down conversion catch off a deflection.

[CRA]

The problem with the "get smith the ball no matter what rabble rabble rabble" argument is that it's spouted by the majority of the people who say "we don't develope a #2 receiver rabble rabble rabble".

A number #2 receiver is never going to pull the double coverage off of Smith until he proves a threat. In order to prove a threat you have to catch balls. In order to catch balls Clausen has to throw the ball to him. This is going to piss off all the Smith nut huggers and people who have him on their fantasy team, but the reality is that forcing the ball to Steve Smith DOESN'T WORK anymore.

CRA is talking about Moore's ability to get Smith the ball. Sure he did get him the ball a few times in the first two games. But how many picks and near picks did he have from forcing him the ball? How many of those reads would have been more open if just one of those three assholes defending him was forced to roll coverage to another receiver?

The sad fact is that we have to develop our other receivers and if Smith has a temper tantrum because he's not getting the ball so be it. It has to happen if we are going to win. I understand that he's a competitive guy and wants to win and I understand that all true panther fans want to see him with 2000 yards and another triple crown, but jesus guys. You bitch and moan about having no wrinkles in the offense and no other receivers and then at the same time bitch about Smith not getting the ball every pass. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

a number 2 WR is not going to pull double coverage off a Smith caliber WR regardless. Moss, Andre Johnson, etc. Even w/ legit other options for their QBs those guys will still face double coverage and QBs have to find a way to get them the ball.

Smith does get open. He knows Clausen isn't able to read a field yet and find him.

[thefuzz]

a number 2 WR is not going to pull double coverage off a Smith caliber WR regardless. Moss, Andre Johnson, etc. Even w/ legit other options for their QBs those guys will still face double coverage and QBs have to find a way to get them the ball.

Smith does get open. He knows Clausen isn't able to read a field yet and find him.

No real need to read the field to find him when he is probably his first read, on most pass plays.

Clausen is seeing a CB jam Smitty, and a LB or a S coming down to bracket him. He then looks elsewhere and tries to get the ball out, instead of forcing it, ala Moore and Delhomme.

Do you realize that all pass plays that Davidson calls in have different reads? This isn't flag football down that the rec center.

[panthers55]

We are up 14-13 in the third quarter. The other team has just scored to make it a 1 point game.

Quarterback 1 comes right back and scores a TD and then later on in the fourth quarter scores again on a field goal.

Quarterback 2 does nothing the rest of the game and doesn't move the ball into the red zone or even field goal range.

Both of them played as rookies for us and this was quarterback 1's first game while this was quarterback 2's second game.

Which one has more promise???

Quarterback 1 was Weinke in 2001 against the Vikings.

Quarterback 2 was Clausen against the Saints.

[CLTPanther]

Moore sucks, get over it.