Clausen versus Weinke- a better comparison

[Ruff]

In 3 games as a rookie Moore went 2-1 with no preseason or training camp.

By no preseason and no training camp, you mean the one with the Cowboys he went through and the one with the Panthers that he went through, not to mention the time he spent on the Panthers roster before the starts?

Oh, yeah, then no, he had no training camp or preseason.

[panthers55]

By no preseason and no training camp, you mean the one with the Cowboys he went through and the one with the Panthers that he went through, not to mention the time he spent on the Panthers roster before the starts?

Oh, yeah, then no, he had no training camp or preseason.

Yeah he got no reps with our players and wasn't picked up until after the preseason was over. In fact he started with less than 1 week of prep with the starters. Whereas Clausen got work with the 1s from day 1. In fact the guys starting now were the second teamers under which Clausen played most of the preseason so he really has no excuses.

So yeak Moore came in with little to no expereince and was much better than Clausen.

[Ruff]

Yeah he got no reps with our players and wasn't picked up until after the preseason was over. In fact he started with less than 1 week of prep with the starters. Whereas Clausen got work with the 1s from day 1. In fact the guys starting now were the second teamers under which Clausen played most of the preseason so he really has no excuses.

So yeak Moore came in with little to no expereince and was much better than Clausen.

You do understand that Matt Moore has been in our system since 2007... Right?

He practiced with the team in all of '07, and even got live reps.

He went through training camp and preseason in '08, until he finally broke his leg in the last preseason game.

He went through the training camp and preseason of '09, and saw live reps.

He through the training camp and preseason of '10 with the #1s (not Clausen), and got the start at the beginning of the season.

With four seasons under the Panthers system, he still looks equal (I would argue less than) compared to a guy who has spent six months with the Panthers, so far.

[blak-n-blu]

We all have eyes panthers55, stop trying to convince us that Moore should start.

Just accept the facts, coach. Your football IQ is degrading with every post you post.

[mav1234]

Yeah he got no reps with our players and wasn't picked up until after the preseason was over. In fact he started with less than 1 week of prep with the starters. Whereas Clausen got work with the 1s from day 1. In fact the guys starting now were the second teamers under which Clausen played most of the preseason so he really has no excuses.

So yeak Moore came in with little to no expereince and was much better than Clausen.

er, what? He was on the team since the end of the preseason, didn't start until the last couple weeks, and he even had live gametime with starters in a few games that he didn't start through that period (and, btw, he looked pretty bad at times, and good at others). In addition, I could have sworn someone had said he was splitting reps with one of our other backups with the starters after one of our QBs got injured during practice (again, before his starts)

[Urrymonster]

Just goes to show you that when we have a decent team with veterans and skilled players, we need a game manager. With this bunch of inexperienced players we actually need a good quarterback. Or at least one like Delhomme who can win a game in the fourth quarter.

Problem is neither Moore or Clausen have shown they do any of those things right now.

You read what you want to read don't you? For a start our backfield is probably deeper, 80% of our OLine was playing then as well. Steve Smith is still Steve Smith. The TEs are EXACTLY the same. The only differences between the two seasons are no Moose, who was ancient and no Vincent. The running game was clicking because we stuck to it (it was slow at the beginning of that year too) whereas this year we seemd determined to get away from it.

Seriously, how are the teams that different? How can each team demand a completely different QB. Moreso, how can you expect the rookie QB to be the one who makes the plays whereas Delhomme should of just been managing the game?!

We made big moves on the defensive side of the ball to get younger, not the offensive side.

Maybe you should wait until Clausen has actually won a game. In 3 games as a rookie Moore went 2-1 with no preseason or training camp. At the pace right now, Clausen will go 0-3. Hard to say that is better. So far Clausen has shown little to nothing whether he is the starter or not.

Maybe you should wait for more the 2 starts before making assumptions. In Moore's first three starts he had a top 5 defence and the best running game in the league. Clausen has a decent defence and a stuttering running game.

[blackcatgrowl]

It is so, so early in Clausen's career to make these sort of evaluations.

It's not about how you start, it's how you finish. If this kid makes it through this season, he will have learned how the NFL works the hard way. If he has the talent, I think he does, and is committed to winning, there's no where to go but up.

[SmootsDaddy89]

[HPPantherzfan]

It is so, so early in Clausen's career to make these sort of evaluations.

It's not about how you start, it's how you finish. If this kid makes it through this season, he will have learned how the NFL works the hard way. If he has the talent, I think he does, and is committed to winning, there's no where to go but up.

Well said!

[DaveThePanther2008]

Two Totally different offenses which makes the comparison NULL and VOID. Thank god the Panthers don't go by this philosophy. They would have Dumped Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman due to poor play.

When Clausen gets a little salt under his belt he will be as tough and good as any QB in the NFL.

Go Panthers

[CatMan72]

It's fun to compare, but not every QB comes in at the same level and develops at the same rate, so this kind of cross comparison has little value.

I haven't looked but I'd bet Troy Aikman's stats in his first few starts are nothing to write home about and he did pretty okay.

[Boomer]

Everyone is talking about Clausen versus Bradford but honestly what about Clausen against our very own Chris Weinke who was a fourth rounder who never developed.

Weinke game 1- 13-22 for 223 yards- 1TD- win against Minnesota

Weinke game 2- 27-41 for 276 yards- 0 TDs- loss to Atlanta

Clausen- game 1- 16-33 for 188 yards- 0TD- loss to Cincinnatti

Clausen game 2- 11-21 for 146 yards- 1TD- loss to the Saints.

Weinke's offense scored 20 points a game- Clausen's 10 points.

Look at who Weinke had around him- no better cast than Clausen, in fact you could argue it was worse.

Go back and look at Collins first 2 starts as well and you will clearly see that right now Clausen is the 3rd best rookie we have had start for us behind Weinke and Collins. And that doesn't bode that well for the future.

I believe Weinke did have some better weapons around him than Jimmy at the wide out position anywas. Moose, Walls, jeffers, Smitty was on that team. But the offense was way different then.

[panthers55]

You do understand that Matt Moore has been in our system since 2007... Right?

He practiced with the team in all of '07, and even got live reps.

He went through training camp and preseason in '08, until he finally broke his leg in the last preseason game.

He went through the training camp and preseason of '09, and saw live reps.

He through the training camp and preseason of '10 with the #1s (not Clausen), and got the start at the beginning of the season.

With four seasons under the Panthers system, he still looks equal (I would argue less than) compared to a guy who has spent six months with the Panthers, so far.

Obviously I realize a lot more than you do. For almost all of 2007 he was listed as the number 3 quarterback meaning he was with the practice squad.

he got no reps with the starters, at all.

With Testeverde and Carr rotating each week, they got all the reps and there was no reps for the practice squad guy.

When Testeverde got hurt then he was elevated to the number 2 guy but that meant he got only about 20% of the reps in practice and none with the starters. In fact they wanted to put him in the week before they did but he was totally not ready.

So you are wrong that he had much practice with the 1s or much practice time at all.

As for his poor performance this year, he really doesn't have any excuses. And I wouldn't make any for him. He played poorly and well below expectations. But our conversation was all the excuses about Clausen and how he needed more reps. My point was that he got as much or more time with the starters than Moore did in 2007 yet he is performing much worse. Which tells me he is not as good or as far along as most of you think.

The difference here is that I am okay with saying that Moore sucked so far this year. You are the guys making excuses for Clausen. As for where we go from here, lets see. I am fine with Clausen starting next week. If he still plays fair or poor then I am all for bringing in Moore and give him a few games to play. After all he has the much better track record, has got a chance to watch on the sidelines and learn, and I still would like to win a few games this year.

[panthers55]

We all have eyes panthers55, stop trying to convince us that Moore should start.

Just accept the facts, coach. Your football IQ is degrading with every post you post.

What is clear is that Clausen can't win or play under pressure. If he can't get it done lets see what Moore can do after sitting for 3 weeks. After Clausen's poor performances I figure the pressure is off him and if he does what he did in 2007 and 2009, he will come in play pretty well and help us win.

Sorry if I am not satisfied losing every game while we hope that Clausen finally figures it out. Frankly I have been a Panthers fan long enough to see the next best things come and go. Whatever supposed spark Clausen had in preseason, it is pretty dim right now. He didn't look very good when the pressure was on frankly. And he still didn't show any ability to get the ball to our biggest playmaker.