What recent developments mean, and what to expect

[Kevin Greene]

It's mandatory if they sign them to an offer sheet. Its not mandatory if the team decides to trade the player for any manner of pickers or players. The Vikings with Allen last year. Allen was tagged non-exclusive he went out and found the team he wanted to sign with. That team then worked out a deal with Kansas, the trade was done (tag is essentially removed) and Allen signed with the vikings. If He signed with the vikings without being traded by the chiefs, then its 2 firsts.

So I guess we're looking at a Juius Peppers tour to the cities of his choice sometime after Feb 5th if the Panthers go that route. Should be interesting to see how many GMs want him. Otherwise, it's 17 million to us.

[Mr. Scot]

If another team signs our Non exclusive UFA compensation is set mandatorily at two 1st round picks. Unfortunately, we've had first hand experience going this route ourselves.

Anyone recall another team giving up two 1st picks for a free agent? Or 1-15 in 2001?

[Peppers90 NC]

BlindSite, Good insight and understanding of football and the NFL. You are a 5 percenter on here.

[BlindSite]

So I guess we're looking at a Juius Peppers tour to the cities of his choice sometime after Feb 5th if the Panthers go that route. Should be interesting to see how many GMs want him. Otherwise, it's 17 million to us.

He's got his own list and that will probably be narrowed down when his agent calls them to guage their interest and it'll probably be narrowed down further when the Panthers develop their demands.

BlindSite, Good insight and understanding of football and the NFL. You are a 5 percenter on here.

Thanks mate, much appreciated.

[Kevin Greene]

He's got his own list and that will probably be narrowed down when his agent calls them to guage their interest and it'll probably be narrowed down further when the Panthers develop their demands.

Now, how does that 17 million dollar offer sheet we have to sign Peppers to figure into whoever might sign him? Or not at all? In other words, does this 17 mill figure have to be stretched over say a 4 year contract and might make Pep more expensive to suitors than say Jared Allen was. Or can teams come up with a mutually agreeable lower cost, high performance incentive contract with Pep more GMs will probably be comfortable with.

[BlindSite]

Now, how does that 17 million dollar offer sheet we have to sign Peppers to figure into whoever might sign him? Or not at all? In other words, does this 17 mill figure have to be stretched over say a 4 year contract and might make Pep more expensive to suitors than say Jared Allen was. Or can teams come up with a mutually agreeable lower cost, high performance incentive contract with Pep more GMs will probably be comfortable with.

Franchise tags work like this.

Peppers is a free agent

scenario 1

Team places tag on Peppers, Peppers is no longer available to be freely signed by any other team in the NFL. If its a non-exclusive rights tag (which it will be) he is free to negotiate with other teams. note, Peppers hasn't signed the "tender"

If the Panthers reach a deal for a trade, and Peppers is happy to go that team (because he's visited them and seen their facilites, agreed on contractual stuff) he's traded. The Tag is automatically removed and the Carolina receives whatever compensation they negotiate, Peppers signs with new team this costs carolina no $$$$ and the other team can pay him whatever the hell they want.

scenario 2

Team places tag on Peppers, Peppers is no longer available to be freely signed by any other team in the NFL. If its a non-exclusive rights tag (which it will be) he is free to negotiate with other teams. note, Peppers hasn't signed the "tender"

Peppers doesn't find suitors he likes, or he does but trade details can't be worked out, he decides to play in Carolina.

He signs the "tender" and receives 17 mill per year, costing the cap, directly 17mill per year.

Scenario 3

We place the tag on Peppers, he signs nothing he finds a team, and signs a contract. We receive the 2 firsts, they keep Peppers.

The 17 million isn't really an issue unless he signs the tender, which I don't think we'll see happen unless he can't find a suitor and or the Panthers can't work out a trade.

[mountainpantherfan]

Franchise tags work like this.

Peppers is a free agent

scenario 1

Team places tag on Peppers, Peppers is no longer available to be freely signed by any other team in the NFL. If its a non-exclusive rights tag (which it will be) he is free to negotiate with other teams. note, Peppers hasn't signed the "tender"

If the Panthers reach a deal for a trade, and Peppers is happy to go that team (because he's visited them and seen their facilites, agreed on contractual stuff) he's traded. The Tag is automatically removed and the Carolina receives whatever compensation they negotiate, Peppers signs with new team this costs carolina no $$$$ and the other team can pay him whatever the hell they want.

scenario 2

Team places tag on Peppers, Peppers is no longer available to be freely signed by any other team in the NFL. If its a non-exclusive rights tag (which it will be) he is free to negotiate with other teams. note, Peppers hasn't signed the "tender"

Peppers doesn't find suitors he likes, or he does but trade details can't be worked out, he decides to play in Carolina.

He signs the "tender" and receives 17 mill per year, costing the cap, directly 17mill per year.

Scenario 3

We place the tag on Peppers, he signs nothing he finds a team, and signs a contract. We receive the 2 firsts, they keep Peppers.

The 17 million isn't really an issue unless he signs the tender, which I don't think we'll see happen unless he can't find a suitor and or the Panthers can't work out a trade.

Does that 17 million count agaisnt the cap even if he doesn't sign it? If not, then there is no reason why we can not tag him and still have time to get a deal done with Gross.

[BlindSite]

No it won't count until he signs it, even then that doesn't kick in till a date before the regular season (can't remember the exact date) I think its just before the preseason or maybe even TC.

[Kevin Greene]

The date they can Franchise him is Feb 5th - Feb 19th.

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/6237-julius-peppers-franchise-tag-faq.html

[Brooklyn Bully]

Herm Edwards would be the best choice bc he wouldn't let Fox walk all over him and pretty much tell him how he wants things done like Fox does with Trgo. Yes, Herm will respect his friend and adhear to the "Carolina Philosophy" but Fix will in turn repect his friend and be more open to new ideas.

[PeppersOut]

Answering a few questions

What will the Panthers do about Peppers

Based on the statements from Peppers himself and his agent it's pretty clear to everyone that Peppers is wanting to leave Carolina. After spending his life in North Carolina and being the centre piece of a team that perennially seems to be on the cusp, Peppers wants a change, and that's understandable. The question that remains however, is what the Panthers front office plans to about lessening the blow to the defence and just how Hurney plans to work this situation to his advantage.

The good news for the franchise is bad news for Peppers. Carolina has the power to tag Peppers with either form of the franchise tag. The Franchise tag, for those unawares, comes in two kinds

Exclusive Rights: Player cannot negotiate with other teams. Must be paid either 120% of their salary the previous year, or an average of the top 5 highest paid players (current year) at their position.

Non-Exclusive Rights: Player can negotiate with other teams, if the other team chooses to sign the player to an offer sheet, the original team has the right to match the offer. If they opt not to match that offer, the other team has to provide the original team with compensation (2 first round picks). Must be paid 120% of their previous year's salary or an average of the top 5 highest paid players in the previous year.

Normally for defensive end this number would be between 8 and 10 million. Peppers though, due to is high earning this year would likely be on an ofer sheet costing the team somewhere around 17 million against the cap.

The idea for the Panthers will be to sign Peppers to a Non-Exclusive rights franchise tag, allow he and his agent to negotiate with interested parties and when Peppers is ready to sign with the team, trade him away for compensation.

I believe that with this method, the Panthers might come out in a better situation than previous. This will allow the Panthers to free up nearly 15 million in cap space, easily keep Gross, sign one of the big name defensive line free agents (Suggs, Haynesworth, Babineaux, unforeseen releases etc) and draft another key cog on the defense.

This of course is a best case scenario, the worst case is if we tag Peppers and he and his agent find a buyer who isn’t willing to come to the table with the Panthers in regards to the franchise's needs and we're left with a 17 million dollar 30 yr old angry key cog to the defense, that we may just release and get nothing for anyway.

The best way for the Panthers to play this is to be open and honest, “he's tagged, make us an offer”. The other bad scenario is a team like Detroit a known no chance contender for at least two seasons offers the Panthers something they can't refuse. Consider this: the Lions have their own disgruntled group of serviceable players, and also a big fat first round pick they picked up from Dallas for Roy Williams. They could trade both a player and the pick and pick up Peppers and maybe some late draft pick ammunition (depending on Detroit’s offer) rebuilding teams need to manoeuvre in the draft. This would give the Panthers what they want, but Peppers would be stuck in a nothing team in a 43 and likely would refuse to accept the trade and drag out a labour issue.

The final possibility is the Panthers simply do nothing and Peppers departs on happy cuddles terms.

Either way, the above should cover some explanation as to what to expect from the situation in the coming months.

Why won't Hurney fire Trgovac?

Mike Trgovac has been much maligned for a number of years as Carolina's defensive coordinator and it appears that he, like Henning before him may have run his course in Carolina.

The question then becomes “What are they waiting for” the answer is relatively simple. It's still the playoff season and the availability of defensive coaching talent hasn't fully been made available. It's difficult to tell who'll be promoted, fired and hired as a result of the head coaching alterations. Without knowing exactly what went wrong in the lead up to the playoffs where Carolina had major defensive issues, firing Trgovac might not fix anything at all.

That being said, who else can take the position? Tim Lewis has experience, but for a fan base screaming for a more aggressive style, Tim Lewis' weak schemes involving about as much pressure as a moist tissue and even less coverage in the zone schemes, the franchise as a whole would be taking a massive backwards step.

Looking elsewhere around the league many of the head coaches and general managers being hired and fired will undoubtedly revolutionize the staff in their respective towns, meaning a glut of talented coordinators will be hitting the open market. There's no reason to fire a coordinator who's been pretty decent, most of the time, certainly not terrible as a coordinator when his talent has maintained health and execution, without having some form of target, especially after the team managed a 12-4 record and won the division.

Just what is the cap situation?

Pat Yasinskas over at ESPN was a little premature with is cap figures of Carolina being 10 million under the cap in the new year.

There is still a huge amount of adjusting to be done, not just to the actual figure the cap will be, but also what bonuses were and weren't hit and what not having Gross or Peppers on the books will mean. Yasinskas is a little conservative, the space is more likely to be in the vicinity of 20 - 30 million depending on how accurate certain sources are. This number will fluctuate based on what the Panthers do in the next few months. Basically what I am saying is, ignore Yasinskas he's not a capologist, and watch this space for updates.

Figuring the panthers use the resources they have to free some cap space even Albert Haynesworth as a free agent may be an option for the Panthers, he'll command likely highest defensive player, Jared Allen esque money in the ceiling of a 12-14 mill cap figure. That could leave 18 - 16 million remaining to pick up the complimentary pieces and extend the players they wish to keep.

30 million is probably a more accurate picture for what the Panthers may have to work with. Generally speaking a number of about 8 or 9 is kept under the cap for the unforeseeable future and midyear signings that take place. So 22 million to sign Gross and a defensive line high ticket free agent is very much in the realm of possibility.

The Panthers can take a high tag free agent, sign their picks and keep Gross this offseason, and for the Panthers to have another successful year, realistically that's what they need.

Who goes and who stays?

Expect to see the following guys in other uniforms in 09 whether they’re released in salary cap moves or not resigned:

DJ Hackett – Injury Prone disappointment

Darwin Walker – See above

Adam Seward – Wants out, wants to start and won’t in Carolina

Geoff Hangartner – Starting calibre interior lineman and should get snaffled by a rebuilding team

Julius Peppers – Wants to go, probably will end up being traded

James Anderson – Hasn’t developed how he was expected to, excellent STer, but not much of a linebacker

Restructures or extensions:

Jake Delhomme – The team can ease that 6 million by giving him an extension. He’s only signed through 09 and I think the team will want to come out and say “He’s our guy”

Ken Lucas – 9 million for poor coverage isn’t economical with Gross to keep on books. We can probably get along without him. Marshall is ready to start and CJ Wilson is deserving of more playing time at nickel.

Re-Signed

Jordan Gross – The most pivotal signature to the franchise right now.

Keep dreaming...

[carpanfan96]

When ever a tag is used it imediatly hits the cap.

[bleys]

Keep dreaming...

hell of a response..

[Lout]

I don't think we can sign Gross until we get Peppers traded, because we won't have enough money to have $17 million tag and Gross' new contract on the books at the same time. Meaning, if we already used the tag on Peppers, Gross may want to go test free agency. It's kind of a catch 22.