Hypothetically speaking: If we had the tools on offense

[ElkinPanthersFan]

Stop saying "Fox's offense". Fox is a defensive coach who does not design offenses.

When are people going to learn that Fox, Hurney, and Richardson are the only anamolies left to explain why our ouffense is the way it is. Why it never changes or adapts. The latter 2, I'd guess would have less than 1% effect ultimately on the play caller.

People called for Henning's head and he was released. Our offense was too predictable, unimaginative and not an NFL level offense. We hire Davidson to come in and be our OC. Yet, we are calling for the same thing 3 years after his arrival. Fox is the PROBLEM. Its not OC's. He is hamstringing the play calling. If you dont understand that he is the only factor in the play calling, then your the biggest Fox Homer on this board.

Apparently you skipped this conveniently..

[monstercat]

Apparently you skipped this conveniently..

Your mad because I skipped your opinion? Who cares? The fact is, Henning was running pretty much the same stuff with the Jets that he was running with the Panthers, and aside from doing a little bit more wildcat, he's running the same stuff at Miami too. He has always believed in runnng the ball and play action passes, which is why Fox hired him in the first place. Davidson got his offense from the Patriots and Charlie Weiss, not John Fox, but he has also kept some of the same stuff that Henning ran.

Yes, John Fox has a core philosophy (running the ball and playing good defense) but he does not call the plays or design offensive schemes. That is a fact, not opinion.

[panthers55]

Your mad because I skipped your opinion? Who cares? The fact is, Henning was running pretty much the same stuff with the Jets that he was running with the Panthers, and aside from doing a little bit more wildcat, he's running the same stuff at Miami too. He has always believed in runnng the ball and play action passes, which is why Fox hired him in the first place. Davidson got his offense from the Patriots and Charlie Weiss, not John Fox, but he has also kept some of the same stuff that Henning ran.

Yes, John Fox has a core philosophy (running the ball and playing good defense) but he does not call the plays or design offensive schemes. That is a fact, not opinion.

Henning had a feed the stud mentality but didn't always run the ball unless he had the personnel to do it. His offenses were pretty balanced. In fact in 3 of his five years here he passed more than he ran.

Davidson may have gotten his training in the system from Weiss but his current offense is a far cry from a Weiss system and what he said he was going to run when he was hired. He said he would be balanced and would adapt the system to the players that he had. He said he would extend the field, use base looks but throw and run out of the same formations to avoid being too predictable and would exploit teams by exploiting mismatches.

Seems that this offense is almost the exact opposite of what he said he was going to do. I wonder who influenced him to change it???

[monstercat]

Henning had a feed the stud mentality but didn't always run the ball unless he had the personnel to do it. His offenses were pretty balanced. In fact in 3 of his five years here he passed more than he ran.

Davidson may have gotten his training in the system from Weiss but his current offense is a far cry from a Weiss system and what he said he was going to run when he was hired. He said he would be balanced and would adapt the system to the players that he had. He said he would extend the field, use base looks but throw and run out of the same formations to avoid being too predictable and would exploit teams by exploiting mismatches.

Seems that this offense is almost the exact opposite of what he said he was going to do. I wonder who influenced him to change it???

Maybe Davidson is just not a very good OC? I don't think he has changed anything until it didn't work in a game, like screens, for example. That was supposed to be a big part of his offense, but if they don't work, you can't keep running them.

[CRA]

Stop saying "Fox's offense". Fox is a defensive coach who does not design offenses.

listen to any reporter that currently covers or has covered the Panthers under Fox. Davidson and Henning run/ran what Fox wants done.

now what do you have to support that Fox doesn't instruct the OCs exactly what he wants and doesn't want done?

[panthers55]

Maybe Davidson is just not a very good OC? I don't think he has changed anything until it didn't work in a game, like screens, for example. That was supposed to be a big part of his offense, but if they don't work, you can't keep running them.

I am quickly jumping on the not very good bandwagon. After 2008 and what he was able to do it looked like he was on the right track and even last year with Moore the offense clicked again. But with this year and how bad we are, you get the sense that he can work with a team that has the pieces in place to be good, but doesn't do much when he has to develop folks or adapt to what he is given. Look at screens as an example. Instead of abandoning them because they don't work, how about putting more emphasis on them in practice so they do work in a game. The game is just the time to demonstrate what you learned in practice. And his gameplanning surely leaves something to be desired. I don't think anyone thinks he has a good gameplan most games and his adjustments are non-existent.

[bleys]

If Fox was here we would go into the season as clear SB favorites and finish 8-8

then, come in the next year with a so called sub-par group of rag tag NFL players and go 12-4

then, we would trade for the greatest RB / WR in the leage that offseason, bench some of the rag tag NFL players just to go 7-9

etc

etc

etc

Just in case you've missed the John Fox trend the last 9 years

hard for ANYONE to argue off this point.. lol

Regarding the long versus short passing debate, it isn't one versus the other it is both done at the right time. To give Clausen some confidence for example I would open with a few short passes. Try a smoke route to Smitty for example unless the corner is right on top of him then I might open with a deep sideline route. It will open up the smoke route the next time. If there are 8 or 9 in the box I would throw a deep route to chase them out of the box. I would throw a seam route or 2 to the tight end to back off the MLB.

I would throw on 1st or 2nd down to loosen them up instead of always running on first and second and throwing on third down. I would put Smitty in motion and in the slot, put him on the left then the right side on successive plays to see how the defense handles it.

Bu then again I would be trying things in the first half so I could figure out how to adjust and be different in the money half.

So I guess I couldn't work for the Panthers even if I was qualified. Seems I would do all the wrong things according to them.

:drool5: @ a much more competent gameplan!

[carolinarolls]

Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore might argue that QB is the not only problem with the offense.

..who gives a poo what Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore say?

I mean really. Two poor decision-makers with big arms who were never better than average...ever.

And the QB is not a "problem". Don't know where you got that from. He is young and developing. Buying receivers is jumping ahead of yourself. The last thing we need is ANOHTER pissed off prima donna screaming at our rookie for the ball right now. You need a solid QB and if you have spent money on drafting one, you need to develop him.

[panthers55]

..who gives a poo what Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore say?

I mean really. Two poor decision-makers with big arms who were never better than average...ever.

And the QB is not a "problem". Don't know where you got that from. He is young and developing. Buying receivers is jumping ahead of yourself. The last thing we need is ANOHTER pissed off prima donna screaming at our rookie for the ball right now. You need a solid QB and if you have spent money on drafting one, you need to develop him.

Or you do what New Orleans did try to find one like Dree Brees that others have given up on and have a gameplan which maximizes his potential. Don't know who would be available next year but I doubt we would pursue one anyway. Unless we get an offensive minded guy like a Gruden or Cameron who would covet a proven guy.

[carolinarolls]

Or you do what New Orleans did try to find one like Dree Brees that others have given up on and have a gameplan which maximizes his potential. Don't know who would be available next year but I doubt we would pursue one anyway. Unless we get an offensive minded guy like a Gruden or Cameron who would covet a proven guy.

well Brees was a huge gamble at the time considering his size, having never really won, and his reported career-ending injury.

Plus Colston was a pot of gold nobody saw coming and who were the stellar receivers, running backs, and offensive linemen when he got there?

He was placed in a position where he needed to prove things to himself and the world and he willed himself to greatness. When the ownership who was planning to leave the city at one point saw what they had, they built a team around him.

IMO we just need a QB to show our ownership what he can do and the money will be spent. Until then it really looks like a bad investment.

[Anybodyhome]

Who would you consider the bigger tool: Fox or Davidson?

...and another thing. I thought I'd read everything until I saw some here saying this isn't Fox's offense and the offense is all Davidson's pet project. My only response to that is get out of the basement occasionally, read the paper, sit on a park bench somewhere and rejoin civilization because you've apparently missed something over the past 8 years...

[Jangler]

The only people who think Gruden won a Superbowl are Buccaneer fans. Everybody else knows he won with Dungy's team.

[Jrock3016]

well Brees was a huge gamble at the time considering his size, having never really won, and his reported career-ending injury.

Plus Colston was a pot of gold nobody saw coming and who were the stellar receivers, running backs, and offensive linemen when he got there?

He was placed in a position where he needed to prove things to himself and the world and he willed himself to greatness. When the ownership who was planning to leave the city at one point saw what they had, they built a team around him.

IMO we just need a QB to show our ownership what he can do and the money will be spent. Until then it really looks like a bad investment.

Your making excuses...now explain Houston and Matt Schaub

[monstercat]

Who would you consider the bigger tool: Fox or Davidson?

...and another thing. I thought I'd read everything until I saw some here saying this isn't Fox's offense and the offense is all Davidson's pet project. My only response to that is get out of the basement occasionally, read the paper, sit on a park bench somewhere and rejoin civilization because you've apparently missed something over the past 8 years...

I have watched all the games and I have read pretty much everything ever written about this team, and I have yet to see any evidence that John Fox is designing offensive schemes or calling offensive plays.

You watch him when the offense is on the field. If he's calling plays, then he's doing one hell of a job of hiding it, and a hell of a job memorizing the plays without the aid of a play sheet.