Clausen already smarter then jake...

[panthers55]

It isn't Smith having trouble getting open so much as the line is not giving the quarterback time for the play to develop. When defenders bracket Steve, he has to work through the coverage which means he won't clear right away. Jake was able to hold the ball and find him when he cleared. Jimmy tends to get rid of the ball so quickly that if Smith isn't wide open he dumps it off or looks elsewhere.

It isn't all Jimmy's fault though. It isn't as if the line is giving him much time. Plus Davidson could readily help the situation by putting Smith in motion and in the slot so he could get open quicker and easier. he could also adjust the routes to more quick hitters and crossing routes with receivers stacked so they can essentially pick the defenders or overload an area.

Jimmy is going to figure out how to give it to Smith or he will have no passing attack at all. The last quarterback who couldn't get it to Smitty was David Carr. Enough said.

[Urrymonster]

Hate to say it, but that's not entirely a good thing.

Smith is one of those guys who's "always open" even when he doesn't seem to be (or so he'd tell you).

The NFL is a game of inches. To be successful, quarterbacks have to learn that sometimes you do need to take chances. Otherwise, you become David Carr.

Happy that he's being careful with the ball? Yeah, but as time goes alonghe needs to gain the confidence to gamble at least once in a while.

I think a chap called Peyton Manning would disagree. The guy always uses whatever play will have the most success against whatever the defence is offering.

Does he take shots? Of course, but they are usually after he has frustrated the opposition by continually finding the open man quickly. The other thing is he gets it out faster than anyone else in the business, which reduces sacks and hits and causes the opposition to slow down their pass rush.

If defences are pinning their ears back against Jimmy, then I want him to get it out quick and take that pass rush out the equation. If the opposition wants us to prove we can continually find the open man, then again I want him to do it. Each and every time he does this it will force the opposition to reconsider their game plan and every time they try and jump the route on Smitty, they will have second thoughts about where it's going to go.

Carr was a shell simply because of the abuse he took from a mountain of sacks, causing him to feel pressure when it's not coming. Clausen doesn't need to panic yet, all he needs to do is play sensible football and the opposition will learn to respect him.

[CRA]

you have to throw to Smitty when in double coverage. A #2 starting to emerge won't change Smitty seeing extra coverage. You gotta hit those windows......

Jimmy has a checkdown mindset. Needs a little Moore/Jake in him.

[Khyber53]

Wow, Jake would have loved to have had only two defenders on Smitty.

Before we annoint Pickles, he still hasn't gotten any wins or touchdown passes. And yes, I know in that Tampa game he came in to take over for a QB when we were down two touchdowns. We've got to give him some room on his first time under center with the team.

Oh yeah, Jake started the same way. Won that sonofabi*&$, too. Led us to the Super Bowl that year, too.

Right now, Jimmy's just a rookie QB who is getting a chance to start. Nothing spectacular so far, isn't getting his teammates fired up to win, isn't making anything happen.

When Pickles gets a win, then we can talk about how much smarter he was than Jake Delhomme.

[Urrymonster]

Trying to force it to Smitty with Clausen is exactly what the opposition wants. Whilst he might burn you once or twice a game, they will also get numerous turnover chances.

With our defence performing decently, we just need to slow down the turnovers to give our team a chance. Forcing it to Smith will only cause the same problems to repeat themselves.

[panthers55]

I think a chap called Peyton Manning would disagree. The guy always uses whatever play will have the most success against whatever the defence is offering.

Does he take shots? Of course, but they are usually after he has frustrated the opposition by continually finding the open man quickly. The other thing is he gets it out faster than anyone else in the business, which reduces sacks and hits and causes the opposition to slow down their pass rush.

If defences are pinning their ears back against Jimmy, then I want him to get it out quick and take that pass rush out the equation. If the opposition wants us to prove we can continually find the open man, then again I want him to do it. Each and every time he does this it will force the opposition to reconsider their game plan and every time they try and jump the route on Smitty, they will have second thoughts about where it's going to go.

Carr was a shell simply because of the abuse he took from a mountain of sacks, causing him to feel pressure when it's not coming. Clausen doesn't need to panic yet, all he needs to do is play sensible football and the opposition will learn to respect him.

Bottom line is Peyton can thread a needle and put the ball between two defenders. He puts the ball where only the receiver can catch it. Sure he throws Ints every now and then but if you think he won't take a chance and whip the ball in there in tight coverage, you obviously aren't watching.

As for Clausen dumping it off every throw, that would be a big mistake. As Mr Scot and I have said, a vertical downfield passing game opens up the running game. What Jake did pretty well before he got hurt and what Moore did last year in his 5 games was get the ball deep to Smitty. That immediately takes the corner and safety out of run coverage which gives you an advantage. If you send the TEs down the seams it takes the linbackers out of the play as well.

If as you suggest you get the ball out quickly and short, the defenders just make the quick tackle and stay in the box. When you fail to get a first down in 3 plays ala David Carr, they just do more of the same the next series. There is nothing to reconsider since the defensive strategy is working and we aren't moving the ball.

David Carr may have been "ruined" as you say, but the result was the same short dumpoff passes and not waiting for the play to develop with defenses blitzing on every down. Clausen will face blitzes right out of the shoot on Sunday. If he panics into throwing right away and dumping the ball as you suggest, we will get buried by halftime as they keep 8 and 9 guys in the box.

[Mr. Burgundy]

jake took us to a superbowl throwing to smitty in double coverage

[HPPantherzfan]

jake took us to a superbowl throwing to smitty in double coverage

He also lost to Arizona, at home, throwing to Smitty in double coverage

[The Saltman]

:yesnod:

[CRA]

He also lost to Arizona, at home, throwing to Smitty in double coverage

poorly thrown balls into double coverage get picked. Top tier Wr see double coverage....you have to hit them in there windows they create. You have to be able to throw to Smitty in double coverage.

[Khyber53]

He also lost to Arizona, at home, throwing to Smitty in double coverage

After the surgery, he sure did. But he beat the Cards more than he lost to them over his career. Didn't you watch the games before 2008?

Throwing to a double-covered Smitty is something of a leap of faith. Either you've got it or you don't. Delhomme had it, and Smitty caught a lot more touchdowns over the years than Jake had interceptions.

Look, Jake had a bad ending here, but he gave this franchise the best years of its history so far. Right now Chris Weinke has a higher winning percentage than Pickles does. When Jimmy clears that mighty hurdle, we'll see about comparing him to Matt Moore, then Rodney Peete.

Yep, Pickles is a rookie. I'm gonna give him that and give him time. I hope he becomes the best quarterback to ever set foot on Charlotte's soil, but let's not anoint him yet.

[Urrymonster]

Bottom line is Peyton can thread a needle and put the ball between two defenders. He puts the ball where only the receiver can catch it. Sure he throws Ints every now and then but if you think he won't take a chance and whip the ball in there in tight coverage, you obviously aren't watching.

As for Clausen dumping it off every throw, that would be a big mistake. As Mr Scot and I have said, a vertical downfield passing game opens up the running game. What Jake did pretty well before he got hurt and what Moore did last year in his 5 games was get the ball deep to Smitty. That immediately takes the corner and safety out of run coverage which gives you an advantage. If you send the TEs down the seams it takes the linbackers out of the play as well.

If as you suggest you get the ball out quickly and short, the defenders just make the quick tackle and stay in the box. When you fail to get a first down in 3 plays ala David Carr, they just do more of the same the next series. There is nothing to reconsider since the defensive strategy is working and we aren't moving the ball.

David Carr may have been "ruined" as you say, but the result was the same short dumpoff passes and not waiting for the play to develop with defenses blitzing on every down. Clausen will face blitzes right out of the shoot on Sunday. If he panics into throwing right away and dumping the ball as you suggest, we will get buried by halftime as they keep 8 and 9 guys in the box.

I clearly stated that Peyton takes chances and shots downfield, but he mixes that up with some incredibly smart football. It's that mix that keeps teams off balance. Obviously you can't compare the two players, however more often than not I see Peyton making the smart throw.

If you live and die by the big play threat, it becomes easier and easier to predict and defend. Forcing it to Smitty is exactly what they want us to do, because they know it's coming. We have yet to prove we can build a gameplan where Steve Smith is NOT the focal point.

Regardless you seem to have missed my point. I am not talking about 'dumping it off' every play. I am talking about taking advantage of the one on one matchups that are going to be there with Smith being heavily covered. We do play with more than one wide receiver you know...

There are some nice quick developing WR routes that could and should be more involved. Our Hbs can all catch and rather than having them as a dump off, we need plays that are designed to get yards rather than keep the drive going. There are also intermediate routes.

The vertical game is great if your OLine can protect the QB long enough for the plays to develop. As it is, I have very rarely seen it happen this season. Both Moore and Clausen have been hit hard several times and it's only a matter of time that one of them picks up an injury.

We need to slow down the pass rush before we can use the longer pass plays, unless we can shore up the OLine play.

Of course the vertical passing game opens up the running game, but currently we can't get push and we can't complete longer passes due to no time in the pocket. Do you honestly suggest that we just stick with it?! Clausen needs to develop some game time confidence and get his nerves under control, a quick passing game will help that happen, keep him upright and force the defence to consider other receivers on our team a threat.

[panthers55]

I clearly stated that Peyton takes chances and shots downfield, but he mixes that up with some incredibly smart football. It's that mix that keeps teams off balance. Obviously you can't compare the two players, however more often than not I see Peyton making the smart throw.

If you live and die by the big play threat, it becomes easier and easier to predict and defend. Forcing it to Smitty is exactly what they want us to do, because they know it's coming. We have yet to prove we can build a gameplan where Steve Smith is NOT the focal point.

Regardless you seem to have missed my point. I am not talking about 'dumping it off' every play. I am talking about taking advantage of the one on one matchups that are going to be there with Smith being heavily covered. We do play with more than one wide receiver you know...

There are some nice quick developing WR routes that could and should be more involved. Our Hbs can all catch and rather than having them as a dump off, we need plays that are designed to get yards rather than keep the drive going. There are also intermediate routes.

The vertical game is great if your OLine can protect the QB long enough for the plays to develop. As it is, I have very rarely seen it happen this season. Both Moore and Clausen have been hit hard several times and it's only a matter of time that one of them picks up an injury.

We need to slow down the pass rush before we can use the longer pass plays, unless we can shore up the OLine play.

Of course the vertical passing game opens up the running game, but currently we can't get push and we can't complete longer passes due to no time in the pocket. Do you honestly suggest that we just stick with it?! Clausen needs to develop some game time confidence and get his nerves under control, a quick passing game will help that happen, keep him upright and force the defence to consider other receivers on our team a threat.

Throwing it to Smitty in double coverage is not forcing it. It is throwing it to him as he is double covered on most plays. If you can't do that you can't throw it to Smitty. If Clausen can't do that he won't be the starter ion a few weeks.

You don't have to complete more than 1 or 2 balls deep in a game. The threat of a deep ball is as good as a completion. The point is not to throw it every time but to make the safety respect the deep ball so they can't cheat up into the box. Even Jake and Moore usually didn't throw more than 1 or 2 deep passes a game.

[rayzor]

throwing it in double coverage isn't the issue. letting the defense know you are going to do that is the issue. thats where playing smart comes in.

i really don't mind him getting the ball out quick. he's got to do that to get defenders worried about someone else other than smith. it's a good way to get the chains moving as well.