I thought Clausen looked good...

[rayzor]

I do not know how people think Moore got "shafted". He was anointed the starter...only to come out in 4 preseason games and 2 regular season games and SUCK ASS at all times.

He lost the job....plain and simple.

i've been saying the same thing.

the most that anyone can say is that jimmy didn't look much better or that moore didn't suck quite as bad as clausen in that one game. while that may have been true, who should have looked and been better? moore. he should have played at a higher level and they dropped jake because they felt that moore could continue to play at the level he did last year. he didn't he should have improved if anything because of having the benefit of the whole offseason built around him as "the guy".

he didn't.

point is he should have played much better than clausen but he didn't and he lost the job. why waste time on a guy with only a one year deal when you have another that is at the very least just as talented as a rookie and has more upside locked up for 4 years?

[Pox 08]

I can't wait to see more of our rookie qb on the field.

I'd love for the kid to get his first win of the season against the SB Champion Saints.

[PantherFanForLife]

I've seen alot of your post in this thread and you have some valid points but your only reason for feeling like Matt had a better game against Tampa then Jimmy against Cincy is he threw a TD or got the ball too Smith more right?

If that is then what games were you watching? You don't mention the fact that Jimmy went against a better Def. then Matt did. Jimmy was in worst throwing condition then Matt. Matthad more reps with the first team then Jimmy and 4 years more pratice with Steve Smith. Jimmy look better in the pocket. Jimmy made better choices with the ball (throwing the ball away avoiding the Rush kept his eyes down field) then Matt. I don't see how you feel Matt had a better game even with no TD passes for Jimmy he had a better QB rating then Matt in tampa.

No, not right. That is not the only reason. Not even close.

Matt completed more decisive passes. His touchdown to Smith and a couple of others were perfect. He completed passes in the middle of the field as he did on the sidelines. Jimmy was targeting the sidelines. I felt he was managing the game better and seemed to have the team behind him. He got the ball into our best playmaker's hand, even though Smith was facing double coverage when Matt played also. He was alert enough to get us first downs with his feet on multiple occasions. Overall I also felt he was a better game manager.

Edit: To explain the sideline throws further and the reason I keep brigning it up, it's playing it safe. One more thing. Jimmy's passes in the endzone were almost ALL in the corners. This is the sign of a guy not trying to score a touchdown, but trying NOT to throw a pic in the redzone. It's college play. You put the ball high and up in the far corners of the redzone so either only your guy can get it, or it's overthrown. Playing it safe. Same reason why Smith barely had any catches. Jimmy was too afraid to throw into double coverage.

Not to mention your last line is completely false. Matt had a better QB rating, not Jimmy.

Jimmy(Bengals): 16/33, 188 yards, 5.7 yards per pass, 0 TD, 1 INT, 53.6 QB rating.

Matt(Tampa): 6/16, 125 yards, 7.8 yards per pass, 1 TD, 1 INT, 60.7 QB rating.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919029

The only thing Jimmy did better is he completed more passes but he ALSO threw twice as many passes. If you look at yards per pass, Matt has the higher number. He also has the high QB rating, and of course 1 touchdown. Jimmy also had 2 fumbles in the Tampa game while Matt only had 1. Even though both ratings suck, 60.7 > 53.6.

You also base your arguments of which team was better or had the better defense on rankings, either from previous seasons or prior to the game. But everyone knows that most "expert opinions" on teams in the beginning of a season turn out to be wrong as the season unfolds and certainly don't mean much once the game starts. Everyone knows any team can be a great or horrible on any given sunday regardless how they are labeled. Cincinatti may be regarded as the better team, but when we played them, Tampa looked better against us. This past Sunday the Bengals looked like one of the worst teams in the league with Carson Palmer having one of his worst days.

I don't agree that Jimmy made better choices.

Look I get that you all wanted Jimmy to go in there, and play a much better game than Matt, end the debate, rally behind him, support him and move on. I get it. I did too. I wanted Jimmy to do the same thing too. I hope Jimmy does exactly that this Sunday. But, for the time being and from what we saw, that was not the case.

But people want that so bad, they are resulting to pulling things out of their ass, spinning facts and doing everything they can to make Matt look much worse than he really was, including dismissing hard facts and numbers just to be able to create some noticeable separation between him and Jimmy and justify Jimmy's starting position as well as their support. We wanna believe. I get it.

So do I. Unfortuantelly, I don't yet. Personally I feel as a fanbase we shouldn't so quickly but if the rest of you are SOLD on this guy, by all means be sold. I'm not. And I preffer to scrutinize both guys, especially the one that's supposed to be an elite QB because well....he might get the franchise and that's pretty important to me. And because of that, I'm not going to sit here and go with the flow and accept twisting hard facts, while in the process trashing Matt for the simple purpose of making yourself feel better about jumping on a bandwagon and being sold on a guy MUCH TOO EARLY.

[Pox 08]

Bengals' defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tampa's defense.

Besides, how fair is it to factor in MM's second game of the season against Clausen's first game of the season? MM's first game rating was 32.6, Clausen's was 50+.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Bengals' defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tampa's defense.

Besides, how fair is it to factor in MM's second game of the season against Clausen's first game of the season? MM's first game rating was 32.6, Clausen's was 50+.

Give it up.

Word on the street is that Matt must've bailed him out of a major debt a few years back.

In return for his blind, undying loyalty.

PF4L doesn't have the money to go back on that contract.

[thefuzz]

I do not know how people think Moore got "shafted". He was anointed the starter...only to come out in 4 preseason games and 2 regular season games and SUCK ASS at all times.

He lost the job....plain and simple.

I have said it 1,000 times before....I hated when what we heard about Moore was that he was a game time QB, not a great practice QB.

That scared me then, and scares me now. How can you not practice well against the players that you know the best, and expect to play well against players you don't know all that well.

[PantherFanForLife]

i've been saying the same thing.

the most that anyone can say is that jimmy didn't look much better or that moore didn't suck quite as bad as clausen in that one game. while that may have been true, who should have looked and been better? moore. he should have played at a higher level and they dropped jake because they felt that moore could continue to play at the level he did last year. he didn't he should have improved if anything because of having the benefit of the whole offseason built around him as "the guy".

he didn't.

point is he should have played much better than clausen but he didn't and he lost the job. why waste time on a guy with only a one year deal when you have another that is at the very least just as talented as a rookie and has more upside locked up for 4 years?

I agree. But then why not just admitt that, and instead say something that ain't true?

Matt should have looked much better. But he did also improve from his first to his second game. No telling if he could have improved even further this past week if he had played. Matt is not as green as Jimmy, but he's green too and can hardly be considered a vet. And last year, he won 4 out of 5 games. Why overlook that too?

And why waste time? For the same reason people are saying Delhomme was not out best QB. This board is notorious for jumping on bandwagons too early, and off of them just as fast, in the process trashing guys that "used" to be good to the point of where we don't want to remember they did some great things for us.

Why be like that?

[Sloth]

No, not right. That is not the only reason. Not even close.

Matt completed more decisive passes. His touchdown to Smith and a couple of others were perfect. He completed passes in the middle of the field as he did on the sidelines. Jimmy was targeting the sidelines. I felt he was managing the game better and seemed to have the team behind him. He got the ball into our best playmaker's hand, even though Smith was facing double coverage when Matt played also. He was alert enough to get us first downs with his feet on multiple occasions. Overall I also felt he was a better game manager.

Not to mention your last line is completely false. Matt had a better QB rating, not Jimmy.

Jimmy(Bengals): 16/33, 188 yards, 5.7 yards per pass, 0 TD, 1 INT, 53.6 QB rating.

Matt(Tampa): 6/16, 125 yards, 7.8 yards per pass, 1 TD, 1 INT, 60.7 QB rating.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919029

The only thing Jimmy did better is he completed more passes but he ALSO threw twice as many passes. If you look at yards per pass, Matt has the higher number. He also has the high QB rating, and of course 1 touchdown. Jimmy also had 2 fumbles in the Tampa game while Matt only had 1. Even though both ratings suck, 60.7 > 53.6.

You also base your arguments of which team was better or had the better defense on rankings, either from previous seasons or prior to the game. But everyone knows that most "expert opinions" on teams in the beginning of a season turn out to be wrong as the season unfolds and certainly don't mean much once the game starts. Everyone knows any team can be a great or horrible on any given sunday regardless how they are labeled. Cincinatti may be regarded as the better team, but when we played them, Tampa looked better against us. This past Sunday the Bengals looked like one of the worst teams in the league with Carson Palmer having one of his worst days.

I don't agree that Jimmy made better choices.

Look I get that you all wanted Jimmy to go in there, and play a much better game than Matt, end the debate, rally behind him, support him and move on. I get it. I did too. I wanted Jimmy to do the same thing too. I hope Jimmy does exactly that this Sunday. But, for the time being and from what we saw, that was not the case.

But people want that so bad, they are resulting to pulling things out of their ass, spinning facts and doing everything they can to make Matt look much worse than he really was, including dismissing hard facts and numbers just to be able to create some noticeable separation between him and Jimmy and justify Jimmy's starting position as well as their support. We wanna believe. I get it.

So do I. Unfortuantelly, I don't yet. Personally I feel as a fanbase we shouldn't so quickly but if the rest of you are SOLD on this guy, by all means be sold. I'm not. And I preffer to scrutinize both guys, especially the one that's supposed to be an elite QB because well....he might get the franchise and that's pretty important to me. And because of that, I'm not going to sit here and go with the flow and accept twisting hard facts, while in the process trashing Matt for the simple purpose of making yourself feel better about jumping on a bandwagon and being sold on a guy MUCH TOO EARLY.

Jesus.

Moore, a 4 year vet, who's had the benefit of 3 veteran QBs on roster during his tenure, who's had years with the playbook, years with Smith and much more time to gel with the first team (including most of preseason), has starting experience.. faced the Tampa defense on a sunny day. I'm going to be kind to him and not mention the Giants game, in which he made Weinke look all-pro and showed the clutch decision making of a tree stump.

Clausen, a 23 year old rookie, who has to turn to MATT MOORE for veteran guidance, has had months with the playbook, very limited time with Smith, very little time to gel with the first team, no starting experience.. faced the Cincinatti defense on a rainy day.

Moore, the veteran who came into this season as the starter, amassed a QB rating which was a whopping 6 points over Clausen. You're acting like Fox unfairly yanked Moore after a promising showing. Moore should be blowing Clausen away. Like in another universe. Not on par with a rookie in his first ever NFL start (against a great D no less).

Also, can you kindly point out to me who called Clausen elite? The closest I've seen to that are a few folks talking about potential and possibilities. People are hopeful because, despite you bellowing into the Internet that Clausen needs to prove something to you, he's shown a nice flash considering the circumstances.

[thefuzz]

I agree. But then why not just admitt that, and instead say something that ain't true?

Matt should have looked much better. But he did also improve from his first to his second game. No telling if he could have improved even further this past week if he had played. Matt is not as green as Jimmy, but he's green too and can hardly be considered a vet. And last year, he won 4 out of 5 games. Why overlook that too?

And why waste time? For the same reason people are saying Delhomme was not out best QB. This board is notorious for jumping on bandwagons too early, and off of them just as fast, in the process trashing guys that "used" to be good to the point of where we don't want to remember they did some great things for us.

Why be like that?

Said it then, and saying it now. MM was under no pressure in those games last season, that cannot be overlooked.

[DawgzLife]

We are no where near a playoff team this season, leave him in, get a top 5 pick, kick tail next season....The end.

I am burning now more than ever about giving up a freaking 2nd round pick to move up & get Armanti Edwards in the 3rd. We would basically have 2 # 1 picks if this season turns out anything like it looks like it will! (I am not a pessimist or a bridge jumper, but when your coach doesn't seem tocare, it's going to be hard to win in this ultra-competitive league.

Nice job Clausen...the kid really looked good in the second half & will continue to progress. He has a high football IQ that ranslates well onto the field.

[Pox 08]

Give it up.

Word on the street is that Matt must've bailed him out of a major debt a few years back.

In return for his blind, undying loyalty.

PF4L doesn't have the money to go back on that contract.

A rumor* has been going around that MM has been paying a handful of people to go to every Panther forum to spread the good word of Matty Nice. Their jobs also entails them going to BOA stadium during home games wearing their homemade Matt Moore jerseys while chanting "we want Moore".

*that I started, just this very second.

[PantherFanForLife]

Said it then, and saying it now. MM was under no pressure in those games last season, that cannot be overlooked.

Here's something that shouldn't be overlooked:

The simple fact that this TEAM at the start of this season IS poo as whole compared to the team that ended last season.

I think THAT has more to do with Matt's drop-off in performance this year and the abysmal first game than "the pressure" factor. This team's offense sucked with ALL the other QB's during pre-season too against other teams' back-ups. That can't be overlooked either.

And yes I'm so loyal to Matt, that I think he has been average at best, I supported Jimmy to come in and play, and continue to support him to remain our starter. That's LOYALTY there folks. If Matt was paying me in exchange for my loyalty I should be fired.

No, the simple fact is this team is young, inconsistent, ill-coached, in-experienced and playing like poo. And the only thing Jimmy proved by coming in, wasn't that it was the right move to bench Matt and that he's the better guy but this: the team as a whole is bad. And that Jimmy is just like any other rookie. You guys want to blame it on Matt. It ain't Matt. If Jimmy ends up doing better, it will be for two reasons: He stops making rookie mistakes, but more importantly THIS TEAM GETS IT TOGETHER.

PS: And I frown upon anyone who reffers to Matt as a 4-year vet. That's not just a tad out of context.

[Clawsome2]

Give it up man

[Brooklyn Bully]

Dear, PFFL

Just let it go already. Enjoy the rest of the season.

Signed,

The Huddle