Offensive Line

[Catdaddy]

Not smash and dash,but plugged and corked up!

[SCP]

Our best case OL moving forward for the rest of 2010:

Gross* - Wharton - Kalil - Schwartz - Otah

* They way Gross has been playing, Peppers is going to own his ass when we play them in a few weeks.

[Mr. Scot]

They should have shifted Wharton back to tackle.

Disagree. I'd much rather keep him at guard.

The majority of the fanbase is crying over the failure to secure a number two receiver this offseason. Only a few have the same feeling about the right guard position, but for me that's as big a failure as the receiver issue, arguably bigger since it hurts in both the run and the pass.

To their credit, the close of last season did make it look like Bernadeau might be a solid starter, and the team had hopes that Duke Robinson would be better.

I'm one of those who believes in shifting Schwartz inside once Otah is back, but my fear is that the next time we expect that to happen, it'll be delayed again

[Khyber53]

My thinking is that Wharton is a better tackle than Schwartz, he's a better guard, too. But switch whoever you want, it still won't get us over the hump because we are missing one big ingredient that we had in previous years: PUSH.

Historically, the best O-lines have made it a point to push ahead, not drop back. Running play, pass play, what have you. Our O-line is working on the philosophy of the wall of blockers rather than the idea of bulldozers. It changes up so much, the running game most notably. And it helps the passing game, too.

Let's look at one of the most famous O-lines -- Washington's Hogs. Big, hulking linemen that shot forward as the ball was snapped. The initiated the contact rather than braced for it. That's important, first off, because it is so much better over the course of the game to make the hits than to take it. The punishment is part of it, but it is also about the simple idea of putting your weight on the other guy, tiring him out.

The secret to John Riggins later years was the Hogs. They pushed the line of scrimmage one to two yards every play before he even made it to the line. He had the opportunity to get up to speed and when he did hit D-line men, they were already on their heels.

The Hogs were also the best ever at pulling a guard to run in front of a running back. Have you seen us do that this year? I don't remember a time it's happened so far. Nothing shakes up a linebacker or safety like having to take a hit from a guard at full run to break up a play.

On passing downs, when the defense pins back its ears and comes full force, line push disrupts it and moves the pocket forward, giving step forward space to a savvy QB. In blitzes, it increases a defense's vulnerability to screen passes. And let's not forget about getting those D-linemen more beat up and worn out.

PUSH. The desire to lay the lumber to the defense. We need it back. We can either use the O-line as human shields or as maulers. I say we need to get the mauler ideal back, no matter who is in the lineup, because football isn't a game for the timid.

[Cyberjag]

It's a lot easier to push 7 than push 8.

[Khyber53]

It's a lot easier to push 7 than push 8.

Without a doubt it is! And last year, we got that push against 8.

Something I am wondering about is how much the change in umpire placement has affected offensive linemen. Someone once said, correctly, that there is holding on every single play of a game, it's just not seen by the refs. Now with an extra set of eyes behind the O-line...

Worrying about holding penalties can, no pun intended, hold you back.

[thefuzz]

Gross will be fine, he is working back from injury.

We have no idea how well the QB is calling out protections either.

[rayzor]

wasn't the oline horrible at the beginning of the year last year? the first game last year was much worse than anything they have done this year.

they'll get their act together. it will help once otah gets his butt back on the field, though.

for some reason it just takes longer for these guys to gel. i have faith in them and magazu, though.

hopefully having clausen back there will make it easier on several levels.

[bleys]

The run game worries me more then the Passing. We need to get it going or we are doomed.

you have to be able to pass in order to help the run game...

[pantherclaw]

I think that the war in the trenches doesn't get any easier this week, playing Cincy.

They have a pretty good d-line, and pass rush.

Our guys have to improve, or it will be another loss. Period.

[raleigh-panther]

Otah is a major concern IMHO

In this draft, the Panthers best be getting someone in the first round who can play either left or right tackle, as mark my words, that guy will not last to get another contract. That is a nasty knee situation for a guy so young. He also seems to not be able to stay on the field, he not the knee, it's the ankle, if not the ankle, it's the shoulder. Gross, who is to say, he seems to have lost a step or two, maybe from the injury or not being full back, it doesn't matter.

As far as WRs, maybe the next coach is a better judge of talent than the current one.

Amazing NO can find so many, and the Panthers can't find one under John Fox. If Siefert gave nothing else, he gave the Panthers Steve Smith.

[Mr. Scot]

My thinking is that Wharton is a better tackle than Schwartz, he's a better guard, too. But switch whoever you want, it still won't get us over the hump because we are missing one big ingredient that we had in previous years: PUSH.

Historically, the best O-lines have made it a point to push ahead, not drop back. Running play, pass play, what have you. Our O-line is working on the philosophy of the wall of blockers rather than the idea of bulldozers. It changes up so much, the running game most notably. And it helps the passing game, too.

Let's look at one of the most famous O-lines -- Washington's Hogs. Big, hulking linemen that shot forward as the ball was snapped. The initiated the contact rather than braced for it. That's important, first off, because it is so much better over the course of the game to make the hits than to take it. The punishment is part of it, but it is also about the simple idea of putting your weight on the other guy, tiring him out.

The secret to John Riggins later years was the Hogs. They pushed the line of scrimmage one to two yards every play before he even made it to the line. He had the opportunity to get up to speed and when he did hit D-line men, they were already on their heels.

The Hogs were also the best ever at pulling a guard to run in front of a running back. Have you seen us do that this year? I don't remember a time it's happened so far. Nothing shakes up a linebacker or safety like having to take a hit from a guard at full run to break up a play.

On passing downs, when the defense pins back its ears and comes full force, line push disrupts it and moves the pocket forward, giving step forward space to a savvy QB. In blitzes, it increases a defense's vulnerability to screen passes. And let's not forget about getting those D-linemen more beat up and worn out.

PUSH. The desire to lay the lumber to the defense. We need it back. We can either use the O-line as human shields or as maulers. I say we need to get the mauler ideal back, no matter who is in the lineup, because football isn't a game for the timid.

Right now we can't run up the middle because we can't get enough push from Bernadeau.

We also can't run right because the combo of Bernadeau and Schwartz gets stonewalled too much.

We can run left sometimes, but even there I think Gross isn't 100% yet.

Basically, we can't run, except for maybe a few plays each game where we get lucky.

And since we can't pass effectively either, teams don't have much to worry about downfield, so they can crowd the line and just make it all that much tougher.

Hate to say it, but reconfiguring the line doesn't really fix any of that.

[Woodie]

Right now we can't run up the middle because we can't get enough push from Bernadeau.

We also can't run right because the combo of Bernadeau and Schwartz gets stonewalled too much.

We can run left sometimes, but even there I think Gross isn't 100% yet.

Basically, we can't run, except for maybe a few plays each game where we get lucky.

And since we can't pass effectively either, teams don't have much to worry about downfield, so they can crowd the line and just make it all that much tougher.

Hate to say it, but reconfiguring the line doesn't really fix any of that.

Which is why I think Bernadeau is better suited to the left side. He's also more of a finesse blocker than mauler that we are used to on that side.

[therealmjl]

Otah didn't practice today.

We might not see him back on the field til after the bye.