Pat Y nails it on head about Moore

[Fox007]

Most of the problems yesterday were WR's not getting open. This causes the QB to hold the ball too long, the Oline breaks down, and the QB is scrambling for his life.

Claussen may provide a spark, but the QB is not the problem, and Claussen is not the solution. It does make sense to start Claussen now because the season is lost and you may as well get the kid some reps. Why not?

Right not open like Gettis for a TD that was overthrown.

Or not open like Rosario that was overthrown(just slightly)(yes i know it hit his hands)

or Not open like Stewart in the flat in game 1 that went for a INT instead.

or not open like.............wait who are you trying to convince....

Accuracy is a HUGE problem with Moore.

[MrBigDick]

Right not open like Gettis for a TD that was overthrown.

Or not open like Rosario that was overthrown(just slightly)(yes i know it hit his hands)

or Not open like Stewart in the flat in game 1 that went for a INT instead.

or not open like.............wait who are you trying to convince....

Accuracy is a HUGE problem with Moore.

Your WR's aren't getting seperation. The opposing defense only needs to shut down Steve Smith, and key on your running game. That puts your offense at a disadvantage. QB accuracy, and ineptitude are always a problem when WR's aren't open.

[CRA]

but for those examples we also have peyton, eli (qho started the last 7 games of his rookie season), big ben, ryan, flacco, sanchez, stafford, and even freeman (as much as i hate to admit it about him and sanchez).

now on those last couple it might be a bit early to tell long term but so far they look like they are doing alright. also remember we just got soundly beat by a player who started his rookie year (which was just last year) as well. point is it can go either way. despite how this team has performed thus far, i do believe that they are capable of doing much better than the turds they have left on the field the past few weeks. they aren't too far off from being the team they were last year. coaching staff hasn't changed.

clausen might just be the shot in the arm that helps get things back on track. the embarrassing loss to the bucs might be the thing that gets them to turn things around.

i'm just not worried about him. i was more worried about moore. it could have gotten a lot worse out there than it got. moore just doesn't have it as a comeback kid, imo. clausen just looks to be a kid that has a huge amount of confidence in himself, the tools to back it up, and a short memory (something that i think neither moore or jake has/had). that will go a long way.

i have no illusions of clausen coming out next week and turning into drew brees or anything. they'll start off slow and limit his role as a passer to just safe plays. all he has to do is not make mistakes and get the occasional play off that gets the defenders back out of the box. i'm pretty sure he can do that. he also has to be able to get the team fired up as well. i see him being able to do that better than moore, quite frankly. the california cool thing isn't the most aggressive and competitive demeanor to have.

the line knows that there is a lot riding on them being able to turn things around and i have faith in them and magazu. they looked pretty horrific to start the season last year as well. they can turn things around.

with the OL play and defensive play....I don't see it working out to run, play D, and limit what Clausen does.

I really don't care either way.....I just hate Fox being involved.

[rayzor]

with the OL play and defensive play....I don't see it working out to run, play D, and limit what Clausen does.

I really don't care either way.....I just hate Fox being involved.

it's only this year. we shouldn't have to deal with him being here this year at all but still it's only one year left.

[guyinchesapeake]

This is what I believe has happened to Moore, and it was what I feared. Moore does not have Jake on the sideline to 'huddle up' with when he comes off the field after a possession. I just don't understand the decision to let Jake go, not when we are obligated for $12 million of his salary! We all know his days as a starter are over, but Jake is a stand up guy, he's a good guy, and his presence no doubt helped Matt Moore last season. Moore is a young guy, who has little experience as a 'spot starter'. The QB chart should read Moore, Clausen, and Delhomme, in that order. Yes, that's an expensive backup, but damn, he's just as expensive of a backup for us as he is a member of ANOTHER TEAM! We're PAYING him not to be here.

I feel for Moore. I wanted him to have a fair shot at the starting job before the 2009 season, to have a fair competition with Jake, given Jake's horrid game against the Cards in the playoffs. I thought he was the right fit for this year. But he obviously has no one to go to on the sideline who has 'been there'. That's what Jake brought, and it's not there for any of our QBs now. Clausen will suffer from that as well.

[ncbobcat]

Totally agree!

I feel bad for Matt, he was set up to fail. He was overhyped by many and just never had what it takes to live up to that kind of hype! To keep playing him like this is only making it worse! He will be shattered if he is booed off the field after every 3 and out; which is most of the time!

Overhyped by whom? I think the majority of the fanbase was skeptical of Moore at best. There were several people HERE that were on the Moore bandwagon, but the general reception of Moore as the starter was luke warm, at least from the vibes I was getting.

[bleys]

the oline has been f**king terrible. we can no longer say we have a top 10 oline, we dont even have a top 20 oline.

we have a different OLine than we had last year.. so yeah, I guess you're right. lol You also have the worst playcalling in the league.. the defense can pin their ears back because the run game is our only weapon and all they have to do is double Smitty...

WR is a huge issue and it affects all facets of the game...

TarPanther9180... I agree with you. When the defense is playing to make the QB beat you and he can't. The defense can pin the ears back and come after them. We need someone in there that can handle the pressure and get good throws. You look had Moore hit Rosario and Gettis on those two for sure TD's, we win.

Clausen is know for his accuracy. I think regardless, he is the future of this team might as well give him the reigns.

Go Panthers

we need receivers.. but I do agree with what you said.. all the defenses have to do is stop the run and double Smitty... with our play calling we aren't putting other players in position to take advantage of that..

Not worried about the 'dink and dunk' passes.

Tom Brady won a couple championships with that style of passing.(before Welker and Moss)

Many people have been WANTING us to use more screens and check downs, myself included.

dink and dunk is a good thing.. opens up the run game and we can take advantage of what little playmakers we have...

we need a new offensive scheme and playbook to do that.....not gonna happen. Fox's offense is built on play action and going downfield. Fox ain't changing.

I do agree with one thing.. Fox aint changing.. but it shouldn't be as difficult to implement.. I wouldn't think we need an all-out west coast offense.. more screens and utilizing more positions like TE and RBs in the pass game would be much improved..

[HPPantherzfan]

So I'm sitting here watching MNF and I'll be d@mned, Breesus throws "dink and dunk" passes 90% of the time!

All you people that complain about Jimmy's check downs, I laugh at you!!!!

Saint or not, I'll take a Drew Breesus! Better yet I'll just stick with Jimmy Clausome!

[panthers55]

So I'm sitting here watching MNF and I'll be d@mned, Breesus throws "dink and dunk" passes 90% of the time!

All you people that complain about Jimmy's check downs, I laugh at you!!!!

Saint or not, I'll take a Drew Breesus! Better yet I'll just stick with Jimmy Clausome!

Look some more and maybe you will see some very distinct differences between their offense and ours. Dink and dunk passes aren't bad in and of themselves. West coast teams use the short pass instead of the run like New England. Other teams like New Orleans use 4 and 5 receiver sets which use many types of short crossing patterns, pick plays and overloads.

The problem for us is that we do neither. The problem with having a checkdown dink and dunk guy in a vertical passing attack is that is doesn't work well and actually is a negative in keeping the safeties out of the box.

The issue is whether or not Clausen and his current style are built for what we do and our playcalling, not whether it fits for New Orleans or Philly who run different types of offense.

[Happy Panther]

Pike 2010

[mj4life]

Look some more and maybe you will see some very distinct differences between their offense and ours. Dink and dunk passes aren't bad in and of themselves. West coast teams use the short pass instead of the run like New England. Other teams like New Orleans use 4 and 5 receiver sets which use many types of short crossing patterns, pick plays and overloads.

The problem for us is that we do neither. The problem with having a checkdown dink and dunk guy in a vertical passing attack is that is doesn't work well and actually is a negative in keeping the safeties out of the box.

The issue is whether or not Clausen and his current style are built for what we do and our playcalling, not whether it fits for New Orleans or Philly who run different types of offense.

of course philly and n. orleans o's are different(talent level for one) but my point is it's the right option on many plays (moore just didn't use it much) & is not the cure all for our offense but we need to move the ball, play field postion,lean on special teams to try to put ourselves in a postion to win games THIS YEAR

[HPPantherzfan]

Look some more and maybe you will see some very distinct differences between their offense and ours. Dink and dunk passes aren't bad in and of themselves. West coast teams use the short pass instead of the run like New England. Other teams like New Orleans use 4 and 5 receiver sets which use many types of short crossing patterns, pick plays and overloads.

The problem for us is that we do neither. The problem with having a checkdown dink and dunk guy in a vertical passing attack is that is doesn't work well and actually is a negative in keeping the safeties out of the box.

The issue is whether or not Clausen and his current style are built for what we do and our playcalling, not whether it fits for New Orleans or Philly who run different types of offense.

So now, depending on the team the dink and dunk is ok...earlier they weren't no matter what?

Secret for ya, I'm really surprised you of all people don't know this, there are check downs with EVERY TEAM in the NFL...EVERY ONE OF THEM! This isn't anything new and it isn't rocket science! The check down can and does work for any team it just takes someone to recognize when to do it and execute it properly!

Do you really read what you type before you post?

Your hate is strong in Clausen...strong indeed!

One more question for ya, when was the last time we had a real vertical passing attack...if you mean run, run, run, run, run, run, run, 40 yard pass thats incomplete, run, run, run then I guess maybe. Most of our passing yards has always come from dink and dunk passes...i.e. the screen pass to Smitty!!! BTW, those dink and dunk passes that will not work for us, apparently, are just an extention of the run game...most people here would say thats our strong point. As a matter of fact I do believe you, yourself, posted one time...let me make sure I get this right; "if you are running for 5 yards a carry why pass it for 4"...that sound familiar to you?

You should really stop hatin the kid and look for positives and how the Panthers can get better not how to belittle a kid for being what he is...THE FUTURE!

Edit: I am going to rep you though, at least you try

[Seamonk]

With our abysmal offensive line that can't even block for Double Trouble against the Buccaneers who we have torched for 3 straight games until yesterday, We need someone who can make a Defensive read and get the ball out fast. MM wasn't doing that, he was Jake Delhomming it. He was trying too hard to make a play too early in the game that was still in reach without it. Clausen has the fresh feet, he's got the ability to make a play with a bad offensive line. He's known for his toughness, his swagger, his cockiness. He is not the savior, but with our current offensive line, our current situation, he's the best shot we have. We can't afford to wait until the season is out of reach for the offensive line to finish gelling so Matt Moore can look good again and for once, John Fox realizes this. The Duel of Oregon State vs Notre Dame lives on. Hopefully ours works out better than that other team..

[panthers55]

of course philly and n. orleans o's are different(talent level for one) but my point is it's the right option on many plays (moore just didn't use it much) & is not the cure all for our offense but we need to move the ball, play field postion,lean on special teams to try to put ourselves in a postion to win games THIS YEAR

That sounds like what Fox would say, LOL. But it is all cliches and doesn't explain anything. The point was that a quarterback needs to be able to play in the offfensive scheme the OC is running, the OC needs to change the scheme to match what they quarterback is capable of doing, or a combination of the two. But it isn't just talent but matching the system to your personnel.

It is true that Clausen may learn to play in our system and be able to throw the ball down the field and stretch the field, but up to this point his skill set doesn't really match the type of offense that we have tried to run under Davidson.