The "Jeff Davidson sucks" mantra.

[mmmbeans]

when was the last time they successfully ran one? I honestly can't remember.

[rayzor]

i'm all for opening up th playbook and trying to open up the passing game (which is what they were trying to do). i just don't agree with doing that when you dont have the personnel.

ifthey want to get creative with the offene they need 1) a really smart QB (clausen wins this), solid WRs (which we don't have 'cept smith), and a solid oline (which we didnt have yesterday).

don't take that clausen comment the wrong way. i'm a fan of moore and thin that he would/should/could be good for the type of scheme that the panthers typically run but he would only ever be just a step above a game manager or just above where jake was at his best.

clausen has what it takes to be among the elite QBs in the league, imo. the ceiling for him is much higher than it is for moore.

[Liminy]

Fox wasn't throwing into quintuple coverage.

fixed.

[panthers55]

Thats not really true. We are small on the line without Otah and we were being overpowed. We just cant bully other lines like we did last year with Otah and Vincent. So We need to use single back sets or split back sets to confuse the Dline. Run RB screens, use high % passes, ect. If something is not working you have to adapt. Its a different line this year so you have to adapt your gameplan to them not the other way around. I just hope Davidson sees this and learns.

We are not physically small without Otah. Schwartz who replaced him is 331 and Bernadeau is 308. Otah is 330 and Vincent was 325. So no we aren't any smaller. As for strong. Bernadeau practices for the World's strongest man competitions in the offseason.

Next.......

[panthers55]

When you bring Henning up, it sounds like you're making an argument for Davidson by saying, in effect, "Davidson is better than Henning, and Henning was good enough, so Davidson must be good enough." I don't think that any position which rests on how good Henning was while he was here will win you a lot of points on this board.

It's my personal opinion that Henning is better, but that doesn't mean either OC is worth a damn. We can go back and forth on who had more talent all day long, but that's not going to win any real points. I have yet to see Davidson do anything extreme, as Henning did with the Wildcat, but he hasn't had the time here Henning did and he just may not be as obvious about it as Henning was. The bottom line is that Henning doesn't matter. He's not here, Davidson is, and he's the one who we're discussing.

What you've listed in your defense of Davidson is the points scored stat, and then you explained why it doesn't matter in his first year and for the first half of his third. When put that way, anyone can be made into a star. And if he is just a victim or circumstance, why not go back to Cleveland, where he averaged 15 points per game? Or is he just good when the stars align properly?

I don't think that Davidson has ever had a high powered offense, save his second year in Carolina. And in that year, he called a lot more runs than he's called since, and he trusted his backs in situations that he appears not to trust them in now. Interestingly enough, over the course of the season he called running plays 55% of the time. That includes the four losses, where he called passing plays 55% of the time.

In the running game, he has the same backs, the same tight ends blocking for them, and at times he's had the same blocking. Yet he sticks to the air game because somewhere along the way opposing DCs figured out what he was doing on the ground. And he's failed in his reaction to them.

Either his players need to execute the plays so well that it doesn't matter if the opponent knows it's coming, or he needs to disguise his plays so they're not sure what's coming. If he does either, he can run. But he's done neither, and has given up on the run early and often, going back to last year.

When you hear stories of the head coach having to tell the OC to run the ball, doesn't that make you question the OC?

First of all I am not that high on Davidson, just doing what you asked which is make a case for Davidson versus Henning.

Secondly I don't know if we have seen the real Davidson. Fox does mettle in the offense and defense. Again it is a friend who talked with an employee who heard Davidson telling the story so it is heresay for sure. But the jist of it was in 2008 when Jake blew up against Arizona it was Fox calling the passes not Davidson. In fact Davidson got over-ruled on several plays. Don't know if it still happens but it made me think that the spread em out offense that he advocates hasn't been seen here yet. And maybe it is all on him but that is why I would like Fox replaced and Davidson retained to see if he can be the guy we hoped for when he came from New England or if what we see is all there is.

As for running look at the first game. We had 2 1st downs in 24 rushing attempts- 1 on the 29 yard run and 1 on the Moore busted play scramble. It may be that davidson is too obvious or that the players can't execute stright ahead blocking. They sure look bad on pass blocking.

As for Davidson being predictable, that may be true. He said when he got here that he would use a few basic sets but have options to throw or run out of them so that the defense will think it is the same play all over but it will be something different. Honestly I don't get to watch game film so I couldn't tell you if that actual happens or if it too predictable. I would agree that I seem to know what they are going to do on every play. But I did the same thing with Henning as well. Might be me???

[gmonet]

I blame Fox. How long can we keep blaming the coordinators before we start to hold the guy who hired them accountable.

I know enough fans who think that Fox is the triumvarite..HC,OC,DC! You sometimes have to wonder about the facts of that thought!

As for Henning...I never quite got the idea that anyone who gets to the OC position is lame, especially when the comments come from some guy who played 3 years of Pop Warner...NOT meaning anyone specific.

[Cyberjag]

First of all I am not that high on Davidson, just doing what you asked which is make a case for Davidson versus Henning.

Secondly I don't know if we have seen the real Davidson. Fox does mettle in the offense and defense. Again it is a friend who talked with an employee who heard Davidson telling the story so it is heresay for sure. But the jist of it was in 2008 when Jake blew up against Arizona it was Fox calling the passes not Davidson. In fact Davidson got over-ruled on several plays. Don't know if it still happens but it made me think that the spread em out offense that he advocates hasn't been seen here yet. And maybe it is all on him but that is why I would like Fox replaced and Davidson retained to see if he can be the guy we hoped for when he came from New England or if what we see is all there is.

As for running look at the first game. We had 2 1st downs in 24 rushing attempts- 1 on the 29 yard run and 1 on the Moore busted play scramble. It may be that davidson is too obvious or that the players can't execute stright ahead blocking. They sure look bad on pass blocking.

As for Davidson being predictable, that may be true. He said when he got here that he would use a few basic sets but have options to throw or run out of them so that the defense will think it is the same play all over but it will be something different. Honestly I don't get to watch game film so I couldn't tell you if that actual happens or if it too predictable. I would agree that I seem to know what they are going to do on every play. But I did the same thing with Henning as well. Might be me???

You're not crazy, you're just partly crazy. And that's the part where you want Davidson around if Fox leaves.

I know Fox wants some specific plays called, that caused friction between him and Henning. But I doubt he gets that involved during the games. The contrast between the playcalling in 2008 and 2009 is truly bizarre. And there's no denying the talent we have on offense. I really wonder what someone like Jason Garrett could do with it.

[ChucktownK]

If you don't like Davidson...you are a RACIST!

[panthers55]

You're not crazy, you're just partly crazy. And that's the part where you want Davidson around if Fox leaves.

I know Fox wants some specific plays called, that caused friction between him and Henning. But I doubt he gets that involved during the games. The contrast between the playcalling in 2008 and 2009 is truly bizarre. And there's no denying the talent we have on offense. I really wonder what someone like Jason Garrett could do with it.

I used to think the same thing as you but that changed last year when I found out that Fox does mettle in offensive meetings and yes during the game. I figured he let his folks do their thing but I think that isn't the case. I just think that Davidson could do more than what he is allowed to do.

[gmonet]

If you don't like Davidson...you are a RACIST!

I GAS...I am a Tea Party Mobster anyway, but I actually thought he (Rangel) was white, how was I to know? He cheats, lies and picks his nose!

[Snake]

We are not physically small without Otah. Schwartz who replaced him is 331 and Bernadeau is 308. Otah is 330 and Vincent was 325. So no we aren't any smaller. As for strong. Bernadeau practices for the World's strongest man competitions in the offseason.

Next.......

Obviously we are weaker cause the Giants DTs are not that big. So Worlds strongest man or not he still got knocked back 12 feet by the Giants...

[CRA]

First of all I am not that high on Davidson, just doing what you asked which is make a case for Davidson versus Henning.

Secondly I don't know if we have seen the real Davidson. Fox does mettle in the offense and defense. Again it is a friend who talked with an employee who heard Davidson telling the story so it is heresay for sure. But the jist of it was in 2008 when Jake blew up against Arizona it was Fox calling the passes not Davidson. In fact Davidson got over-ruled on several plays. Don't know if it still happens but it made me think that the spread em out offense that he advocates hasn't been seen here yet. And maybe it is all on him but that is why I would like Fox replaced and Davidson retained to see if he can be the guy we hoped for when he came from New England or if what we see is all there is.

As for running look at the first game. We had 2 1st downs in 24 rushing attempts- 1 on the 29 yard run and 1 on the Moore busted play scramble. It may be that davidson is too obvious or that the players can't execute stright ahead blocking. They sure look bad on pass blocking.

As for Davidson being predictable, that may be true. He said when he got here that he would use a few basic sets but have options to throw or run out of them so that the defense will think it is the same play all over but it will be something different. Honestly I don't get to watch game film so I couldn't tell you if that actual happens or if it too predictable. I would agree that I seem to know what they are going to do on every play. But I did the same thing with Henning as well. Might be me???

I think there is a lot of truth to that. Even the commentators who watch little Panther football were pointing out the RB depth making the runs too obvious.....and that has been pointed out in prior seasons. Pass plays and playaction the RBs line up closer to Moore. Run plays they are deeper in the backfield. That has been pointed out in prior seasons under Davidson......if we know it is a run just imagine what smart NFL minds can do with that knowledge.

I do think Fox and company are old school and big on execution. They don't care if teams know what they are doing...they expect the players to still execute the plays. That is hard in today's NFL. Carolina has done it though which speaks volumes about some of the talent they have here imo.

[Snake]

I think there is a lot of truth to that. Even the commentators who watch little Panther football were pointing out the RB depth making the runs too obvious.....and that has been pointed out in prior seasons. Pass plays and playaction the RBs line up closer to Moore. Run plays they are deeper in the backfield. That has been pointed out in prior seasons under Davidson......if we know it is a run just imagine what smart NFL minds can do with that knowledge.

I do think Fox and company are old school and big on execution. They don't care if teams know what they are doing...they expect the players to still execute the plays. That is hard in today's NFL. Carolina has done it though which speaks volumes about some of the talent they have here imo.

agreed. Some of the best teams in the NFL are the ones that are hard to predict. Actually the people that are calling for the chin to take over will just get another dose of this. He is another coach that dose not really care about being predictable.

[beastson]

Its a problem the speed of the receivers isn't really there, but one problem with the plays is the receivers running too many vertical routes. Not enough curl routes, crosses across the middle or curls in the middle. In that sense Matt hold a little too long waiting for somebody to get open deep. Going for the big play too much

I remember one play we lined Dante up as WR on the far left and threw a slant to him. He was too slow to get separation and come over fast enough to catch it smh