Barry Bonds

[King Taharqa]

Yeah. Black guys, like these:

Mark McGwire

Roger Clemens

Jason Giambi

Jose Canseco

Rafael Palmeiro

Andy Pettitte

Todd Hundley

Denny Neagle

John Rocker

Bret Boone

Lenny Dykstra

Rick Ankiel

Jason Grimsley

Eric Gagne

And of course, Alex Rodriguez.

Pretty clear from that list that they're only going after black guys

None of those guys have Federal cases. None of those guys who are currently playing are hounded by fans in every park they play in. Most of them are still revered, either been forgiven, or just arent spoken of. Grimsley was a federal informant who the Feds even tried to use to go at Bonds. Anyone who would imply those guys receive the level of hate or scrutiny of the evil elitist black athlete is delusional. Ignoring the dimension of Bonds race and how its played into all of this is laughable. The vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders were/are working class whites who hate superstar black athletes who they dont feel are humble enough to their liking. Add in the fact Bonds surpassed 2 prestigious records once held by and still associated with a "segregation/jim crow" era hero/demigod in Babe Ruth and its understandable how so many baseball fans & media types could rally behind each other to go at The Great One.

[Mr. Scot]

None of those guys have Federal cases. None of those guys who are currently playing are hounded by fans in every park they play in. Most of them are still revered, either been forgiven, or just arent spoken of. Grimsley was a federal informant who the Feds even tried to use to go at Bonds. Anyone who would imply those guys receive the level of hate or scrutiny of the evil elitist black athlete is delusional. Ignoring the dimension of Bonds race and how its played into all of this is laughable. The vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders were/are working class whites who hate superstar black athletes who they dont feel are humble enough to their liking. Add in the fact Bonds surpassed 2 prestigious records once held by and still associated with a "segregation/jim crow" era hero/demigod in Babe Ruth and its understandable how so many baseball fans & media types could rally behind each other to go at The Great One.

None of those guys lied to a federal court about it. One guy who is, however, suspected of lying to a government body, is currently under investigation and could very easily soon be facing similar charges, perhaps on an even greater scale given that it's congress who's involved.

How exactly do you explain the level of public hate and government scrutiny being aimed at Roger Clemens? Did he have a black ancestor?

Face it. Bonds is hated for being an a--hole. Not for being black. He's under indictment because he lied about using steroids. Not because he's black. And frankly, there's only one person I can see here that's indulging in race based generalizations, otherwise known as "racism". That person's words are included in this post.

(and I'll give you a hint; it ain't me)

Twist it any way you want to, but in the end there's way more race-based hatred and racist thinking coming out of your posts than anyone else's. Maybe you should actually take some time to think about that rather than just accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being racist.

And I'd close this out by adding that the vast majority of Bonds haters on this board (and most other places) consider Hank Aaron to be the true home run king, not Babe Ruth. Aaron is a real hero, who faced real racism. Compared to Hank Aaron, Bonds is a pansy-ass mama's boy who whined about being booed (how traumatic) and realistically never could have come close to the record without artificial help.

(yep, those Hank lovers must be a bunch of racists) :skep:

[King Taharqa]

Face it. Bonds is hated for being an a--hole. Not for being black. He's under indictment because he lied about using steroids. Not because he's black. And frankly, there's only one person I can see here that's indulging in race based generalizations, otherwise known as "racism". That person's words are included in this post.

I didnt say Bonds is hated because he's black. I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough. There is a difference. Those black athletes who are seen as being humble (having a "just happy to be there" attitude;) and are perceived with a docile demeanor (for example, your example of Hank Aaron) arent. I also said that the vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders are working class whites. Thats a statement that the very news channel that supplies you with the majority of your Bonds hate supports in the poll Ive already posted in this thread. Hey everyone on this board knows I loathe Kobe Bryant (another superster black athlete) and openly root against the guy and think "he's an asshole". But ask me do I want to see him go to jail or if I want to erase his accomplishments from the record books because of that fact? Thats the difference between me and you.

[Mr. Scot]

I didnt say Bonds is hated because he's black. I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough. There is a difference. Those black athletes who are seen as being humble (having a "just happy to be there" attitude;) and are perceived with a docile demeanor (for example, your example of Hank Aaron) arent. I also said that the vast majority of Bonds haters/asterisk holders are working class whites. Thats a statement that the very news channel that supplies you with the majority of your Bonds hate supports in the poll Ive already posted in this thread. Hey everyone on this board knows I loathe Kobe Bryant (another superster black athlete) and openly root against the guy and think "he's an asshole". But ask me do I want to see him go to jail or if I want to erase his accomplishments from the record books because of that fact? Thats the difference between me and you.

Bryant's a bad example. I think he does deserve to go to jail, and for something waaaay worse than just taking steroids.

Regardless, "Good guy" athlete vs "A--hole" athlete is most definitely not something that breaks along racial lines.

Plenty of people think guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo and Jay Cutler are dickheads. Ditto Jose Canseco and Roger Clemens. On the flipside, people here have loads of respect for guys like Warrick Dunn, even though he's played for not just one, but two, division rivals.

Your argument really breaks down, at least on this board, with the mention of a couple of names:

Steve Smith

Smitty's never going to win a "Mr. Humility" contest, and his track record isn't exactly perfect. Regardless, you'd have a tough time finding another guy that got as loyal a following among Panther fans as Smith does.

Julius Peppers

Quiet, humble, unassuming, and yet the majority of the fanbase is prepared to pack his bags for him and run him out of town just as quickly as they did another humble guy, DeShaun Foster.

Jake Delhomme

See above, with the only difference being skin color.

I could point out some other examples of hated white pricks in sports (Drew Rosenhaus for example) and mention that any episode of Sportscenter features its fair share of self-aggrandizing black players (Shaquille O'Neal being the biggest example, literally) who have loads of loyal fan following.

But in the end, the bottom line is this:

A loudmouth is a loudmouth, regardless of how much pigment the lips around that mouth happen to carry.

And the heart of nice guy pumps blood that's red, regardless of what color skin surrounds it.

[King Taharqa]

Regardless, "Good guy" athlete vs "A--hole" athlete is most definitely not something that breaks along racial lines.

Its all subjective and thats why I dont get caught up in athletes public personas because I dont know them personally. Its not a popularity contest with me, its about who performs on the field of play. I stand behind my comment that if you are a superstar black athlete that is seen as non-conformist or playing with an "athletic arrogance" you will not be given the benefit of the doubt in anything, be it your leadership, your innocence regarding legal issues, or how well you get along with your peers. Bonds is just the latest example of that fact.

[Johnny Rockets]

I said Bonds is hated because he's a superstar black athlete who isnt seen as being humble enough.

I would venture to say that the vast majority of people that dislike Bonds, dislike Clemens just as much.

[bubbadawg]

I don't know KT. Bob Gibson is as arrogant a player as there ever was and while maybe he isn't loved an adored he was never seen as a cancer to the game.

[King Taharqa]

I would venture to say that the vast majority of people that dislike Bonds, dislike Clemens just as much.

The heat didnt get on Clemens until AFTER his playing days were over. And unlike Bonds, he was given the "benefit of the doubt" (and to some critics of Bonds is STILL given the "benefit of the doubt") that the things he was doing (winning Cy Youngs, maintaining velocity with his pitches) well past the age of 40 were natural. Clemens never seen no parts of people holding asterisks at all his games and sending his family death threats. He never dealt with none of that.

"What I'm saying is that there's nothing in his career numbers that would indicate any kind of artificial enhancement. I think a lot of people who assume that his later career performance was artificially enhanced haven't done their homework."-Bob Costas, huge baseball purist and Bonds hater speaking on Clemens alleged PED usage well after his testimony in Congress.

[Johnny Rockets]

Clemens didn't willingly end his career, he was forced out just like Bonds KT. Both of them tried to fight to clear their name and it backfired because neither one is 100% innocent. Most sports fans are rather forgiving....as long as you accept responsibility and say you are sorry......no matter what color you are.

[bubbadawg]

exactly, Pettite and Giambi have been ,if not accepted back by the fans, at least not vilified. Clemens., Palmiero, Bonds and to a lesser extent McGwire, Have drawn a good portion of the fans hatred for continuing to lie when the evidence is overwhelming. If Rose had been man enough to stand up and tell the truth when he was first investigated he might have a chance at getting in the HOF before he dies.

And for the record, I hope Rose is never let in, or at least not before Shoeless Joe

[Scrumtrilescent]

Barry Bonds made baseball a joke! I really wish I could respect his record but I can't!

I mean we are talking about a sport that still uses a wooden bat to keep the records true and then you have this mess.

I really wish baseball could get back to the status it once was because it is a great sport and America's legacy of sports!!!!

and KT I am not picking a fight with you because I believe you take this to heart about Barry, but that is just how I feel, no disrespect!

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.

[hmsmike]

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.

Well ratings would go up!

Who can turn away from a train wreck?

[Johnny Rockets]

If modern day pro players used metal/ceramic bats, there'd be a huge list of dead pitchers, 3rd basemen, and 1st basemen.

And I can only dream that Chipper would be the first casualty......

[chbright]

And I can only dream that Chipper would be the first casualty......

could ryan howard get out of the way of anything. if they hit threw ham sandwiches his way he might be fine. heck kruk would still be playing then lol.