Anybody with keen football knowledge

[Dpantherman]

that too. u can create formations on either i think. i have no idea if they would ever work in real life

[Hawk]

picket fence!!!!

flying V

[Panthro]

I wonder if Catholic still runs the Wing T. Talk about a different offense to defend. While all these teams are going more to the spread O you can own their ass by using misdirection and pulling guards on them.

[lightsout]

First off, thanks for some ACTUAL advice. For those who decided to be smartasses, thanks. I needed the laugh.

Allow me to clarify a bit. I know the Georgia Tech offense for a few reasons. It is what I ran all through high school (played left guard on offense, linebacker on defense). I also played FB and TE in the triple option system as well. I prefer what most call the "flexbone" over the traditional split-back veer for speed purposes and better misdirection. If there is but 1 offense in this world I know everything about (blocking rules, the FB's running path on all plays, the timing of motions, etc.) it is the Paul Johnson triple-option. Also, I went with my high school staff (as I coached with them last year while taking a year off from school) to Georgia Tech for the coaching clinic. So, being there to have Paul Johnson and the rest of the staff explain it even further, I KNOW that offense.

Now, I was kicking around ideas last night. I came up with a full Pro I-formation playbook (3 or 4 variations. Off-set I, power I, etc) and was able to keep the terminology I tentatively want to use the same. I have heard of scribd, but with my terminology for the passing tree in the triple, what I found there wouldn't work for the I (as it is a numbering system per route.) With, typically, an odd number of receivers (split-end, flanker, and TE) in the pro set, the numbering would throw the kids off. I am just needing a way to keep the passing tree somewhat the same while keeping it simple.

I have kicked around the wishbone. We ran it my freshmen year of high school for a change of pace, but there are only a few plays I would actually run out of it. The GOOD thing about the wishbone is the ability to switch to and from the tradition "flexbone" look. Also, since there are no changes in personnel, I could keep my passing tree.

Pstall, when I do win state with the triple, I will absolutely PM you. Although I do not foresee myself winning state until at LEAST 10-15 years after my first coaching job...sadly. :frown: Reality sucks. But hey, maybe I'm selling myself short.

[lightsout]

I'm no coach, but you can find some good boards out there for this type of thing.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/32425080

3 step routes tend to be hooks and slants to the receivers to offset heavy pressure and press coverage while the TE (or slot) either goes up on a post or out (Boise St toasted VT on a play action with the TE running a post last night).

5 step routes typically have an outside receiver on one side running a post or squaring off on an in route on one side, the interior receiver (a TE or slot) going outside with the flanker going inside in some fashion (or vice versa) or having the flanker on a go route to burn them deep.

A favorite of mine on Madden (for serious!) is to run a play where the inside receiver runs a go while flanker runs a 10-15 yrd dig to take advantage of the safety going deep while the TE drags across taking advantage of the clear out.

I can tell you it will be no mean feat to install the triple option at the HS level, but it obviously can be run out of the I as well as the wishbone and the veer.

Triple option teams have very, very few pass plays due to the sheer complexity of the running plays.

All of that is very good, but one thing. The triple has more passing plays than you would think. There are a LOT of possibilities for different formations (trips, quads, stack trips, doubles open or the traditional spread look, twins with a TE, etc.) and a lot of different combos for clear-outs, taking advantage of seams, screens, and even half back passes or double passes off of the screen.

[Hawk]

so, you're gonna run the picket fence then? It worked for Gene Hackman, should work for you!

[lightsout]

I'm unclear. Are you needing help with the routes and/or plays themselves, or just looking for what to call them?

If it's the second, are you using a numeric passing tree or named routes? There are variations on passing trees.

My passing tree for the triple goes as follows:

In the "flexbone" set, there are 2 WRs and two "wing-backs" aligned tight to the tackles (on the tackles outside foot). That is 4 possible receivers. The routes go off of a number:

1 - drag to the sideline, typically by the "wing-backs". 2 yards deep

2 - Square out

3 - Wheel

4 - Flag

5 - Square In

6 - hook. go to 12 yards, come back to 10

7 - Post

8 - Fly

9 - What I call an inside-out. 5 yards, break inside, on second step, break back outside.

So a possible play would be 7-88-Tiger 88.

7 indicates the line to cup protect. 88 signifies the the left side receivers to run fly routes, tiger indicates the other other side (just a word to avoid confusion for all 4. I could say 8888, or all-go, but just for the sake of keeping it simple, I use that word.) and 88, again, will tell them to run flys.

If its trips right or left, the numbers go outside-in. 731 would tell the SE to run a post, 30 (as you call the play seven-thirty-one) will tell the slot to run a wheel (the 3 route) and 1 will tell the inside receiver (who is still aligned at his usual wing position) to run a drag out. Backside receiver always runs a 7 (post route) UNLESS a playside receiver is running a post, in which case, they will just run a fly.

As you can see, with a WR on either side in the pro-I, the numeric system can get confusing. I thought about keeping the same numbering system, just going left WR, right WR, TE. Just figured that would lead to Dwayne Jarrett syndrome (running incorrect routes).

I know it sounds convoluted, but it is really simple.

There are some named plays. "Jump ball brown" would just be a fly route that the QB lobs up. Hence, "jump ball". The "r" in "brown" indicates right. Black is left. The backside receiver runs a post if there is 1 safety, a fly if there are 2 safeties. The playside wing back runs a 1 route. Backside wing stays home to block. This is flipped if "jump ball black is called".

8 Harvard is a half back pass. 8 is a sweep to the left running back (or wing-back) around the right side. The only difference is, he passes. The "h" in Harvard indicates "halfback". He will be looking for the WR down field on a fly route.

Dart would be a flare to the FB with everybody else going vertical on 8 routes.

So there are some namings if the play is intended for a specific player. Other than that, it is numbered.

[TarPanther9180]

This is a good site I use (which I coach 8-9 year olds) for plays and drills:

http://www.eteamz.com/football/instruction/tips/

Passing tree:

[CarolinaKid704]

Just a thought is to use substitutions for your WRs in the I form for your run and passing downs. As in, decoy WRs that only come into block on running downs and then your starting WRs come in on passing downs.

But, I still dont know if that would help out with what your trying to accomplish.

You could always just dumb it down and give your WRs 1 route to run on a certain down. Or perhaps always use motion for one receiver and give him the option to run a route vs. man and zone defenses.

Obviously what you need is to simplify your communication on I formation plays. So, isolate one or two positions with fixed routes. What you dont want to do is open up a whole other lingo for just the I form. Start out with a very basic approach and later in the season you can work out kinks.

[Mr. Scot]

My passing tree for the triple goes as follows:

In the "flexbone" set, there are 2 WRs and two "wing-backs" aligned tight to the tackles (on the tackles outside foot). That is 4 possible receivers. The routes go off of a number:

1 - drag to the sideline, typically by the "wing-backs". 2 yards deep

2 - Square out

3 - Wheel

4 - Flag

5 - Square In

6 - hook. go to 12 yards, come back to 10

7 - Post

8 - Fly

9 - What I call an inside-out. 5 yards, break inside, on second step, break back outside.

So a possible play would be 7-88-Tiger 88.

7 indicates the line to cup protect. 88 signifies the the left side receivers to run fly routes, tiger indicates the other other side (just a word to avoid confusion for all 4. I could say 8888, or all-go, but just for the sake of keeping it simple, I use that word.) and 88, again, will tell them to run flys.

If its trips right or left, the numbers go outside-in. 731 would tell the SE to run a post, 30 (as you call the play seven-thirty-one) will tell the slot to run a wheel (the 3 route) and 1 will tell the inside receiver (who is still aligned at his usual wing position) to run a drag out. Backside receiver always runs a 7 (post route) UNLESS a playside receiver is running a post, in which case, they will just run a fly.

As you can see, with a WR on either side in the pro-I, the numeric system can get confusing. I thought about keeping the same numbering system, just going left WR, right WR, TE. Just figured that would lead to Dwayne Jarrett syndrome (running incorrect routes).

I know it sounds convoluted, but it is really simple.

There are some named plays. "Jump ball brown" would just be a fly route that the QB lobs up. Hence, "jump ball". The "r" in "brown" indicates right. Black is left. The backside receiver runs a post if there is 1 safety, a fly if there are 2 safeties. The playside wing back runs a 1 route. Backside wing stays home to block. This is flipped if "jump ball black is called".

8 Harvard is a half back pass. 8 is a sweep to the left running back (or wing-back) around the right side. The only difference is, he passes. The "h" in Harvard indicates "halfback". He will be looking for the WR down field on a fly route.

Dart would be a flare to the FB with everybody else going vertical on 8 routes.

So there are some namings if the play is intended for a specific player. Other than that, it is numbered.

Gotcha. Lemme get back to you later (short on time)

[Mr. Scot]

My passing tree for the triple goes as follows:

In the "flexbone" set, there are 2 WRs and two "wing-backs" aligned tight to the tackles (on the tackles outside foot). That is 4 possible receivers. The routes go off of a number:

1 - drag to the sideline, typically by the "wing-backs". 2 yards deep

2 - Square out

3 - Wheel

4 - Flag

5 - Square In

6 - hook. go to 12 yards, come back to 10

7 - Post

8 - Fly

9 - What I call an inside-out. 5 yards, break inside, on second step, break back outside.

So a possible play would be 7-88-Tiger 88.

7 indicates the line to cup protect. 88 signifies the the left side receivers to run fly routes, tiger indicates the other other side (just a word to avoid confusion for all 4. I could say 8888, or all-go, but just for the sake of keeping it simple, I use that word.) and 88, again, will tell them to run flys.

If its trips right or left, the numbers go outside-in. 731 would tell the SE to run a post, 30 (as you call the play seven-thirty-one) will tell the slot to run a wheel (the 3 route) and 1 will tell the inside receiver (who is still aligned at his usual wing position) to run a drag out. Backside receiver always runs a 7 (post route) UNLESS a playside receiver is running a post, in which case, they will just run a fly.

As you can see, with a WR on either side in the pro-I, the numeric system can get confusing. I thought about keeping the same numbering system, just going left WR, right WR, TE. Just figured that would lead to Dwayne Jarrett syndrome (running incorrect routes).

I know it sounds convoluted, but it is really simple.

There are some named plays. "Jump ball brown" would just be a fly route that the QB lobs up. Hence, "jump ball". The "r" in "brown" indicates right. Black is left. The backside receiver runs a post if there is 1 safety, a fly if there are 2 safeties. The playside wing back runs a 1 route. Backside wing stays home to block. This is flipped if "jump ball black is called".

8 Harvard is a half back pass. 8 is a sweep to the left running back (or wing-back) around the right side. The only difference is, he passes. The "h" in Harvard indicates "halfback". He will be looking for the WR down field on a fly route.

Dart would be a flare to the FB with everybody else going vertical on 8 routes.

So there are some namings if the play is intended for a specific player. Other than that, it is numbered.

Sorry to take a while to get back to ya (busy time in my life, I'm afraid) but here are a couple of suggestions.

First off, if it's not too late for this, you might want to organize your pass routes a little differently. When I was setting up a playbook for my buddy's youth flag football team, I grouped similar routes together and used odd/even numbering.

For example, you could label your more basic routes like so:

1 - Square In

2 - Square Out

3 - Slant

4 - Fade

5 - Hook (turn inside)

6 - Curl (turn outside)

7 - Post

8 - Flag

9 - Fly

The point of organizing them this way is not just that you put natural opposites as odds and evens, but you also get a sort of built in memory device. Odd numbers refer to inside routes, even numbers to outside routes, so when you give a kid a number he knows which way to head. Likewise, lower numbers are used for shorter routes, higher numbers on the routes that tend to go longer, so a kid knows how far he's going based on how high the number is. Naturally, you can vary that up somewhat, but it gives you a basic structure to start off.

Routes that are a little more complex and/or tend to be done by the slot guys or runningbacks you could label with letters or just give them names.

A - The "drag to the sideline" sounds like what I usually call a 'flat" route

B - Wheel route

C - Inside Out (sounds similar to a "sideline and go" if I'm understanding you right)

Couple of other routes I like that you might consider working in on top of your basic routes:

- Seam (slant inside, then turn upfield)

- Comeback (similar to a hook, but with a hard stop and diagonal turn rather than a looping turn)

- Hitch (flipside of the comeback, only quicker and designed to get out of bounds when you need to stop the clock)

- Smoke (hey, if they're playing off, why not?)

Personally, I tend to like giving my QB options at each level, i.e. one short route, one medium, one long, etc. Obviously, it depends on how many receivers you're sending and certain field situations may not allow for it, but it's something to think about.

Another thing to consider: When you plot out your plays, think about the flow and you might find some opportunities for misdirection. Like say, sending three guys on long routes only to toss it to a guy running a short in-route, a play which can be especially effective if your short guy is a great open-field runner.

Also might want to think about organizing your plays situationally for your own sake, i.e. First and 10 plays, Second and Short, Third and Long, etc). It tends to make your playcalling a little easier when you've already narrowed your options down ahead of time (but be wary not to get predictable).

As to the other aspects of the play, you might be wise to avoid using numbers for protection calls or other aspects of the play if you're going to use numeric pass routes. It might lead to confusion when the play is called out. instead, maybe try naming your protections based on a theme. You could use anything from different shapes to different breeds of dogs or cats, but that way your blockers know which part of the play call applies to them (i.e. "I need to listen for the dog's name, not the number").

Using specific names for certain plays is a good tactic, especially if the names makes sense (like "Hail Mary") or are based on something to which the kids can relate. As you get more advanced with your guys, you might be able to build your playcalls around a certain idea rather than reading off each aspect of the call. Sam Wyche, for example, used to use a mix of mnemonic devices and such for his terminology. He had a play that was designed to isolate a runningback on a strong safety that he referred to as BOSS (Back On Strong Safety) but the actual playcall was "Bruce", short for Bruce "the Boss" Springsteen. Like what you said above, it seems convoluted, but it's simple when you break it down.

That's the kind of thing you can aim for down the road of course, though early on it will naturally be best to keep it relatively simple.

Strongest advice I could give you overall? Be organized and prepared, but also flexible and creative. The best coaches know how to use the right mix of those qualities.

Hope that makes sense. If you have further questions feel free to ask (I promise to try and be quicker with my answers)

[lightsout]

Thanks, Scot! Appreciate the time.

We actually used the idea of a trips right, all verticals, with the backside WR coming underneath on an in-route in high school. It worked for a 12 yard pick up. I've always been a fan of the complicating coverages theory. Run a post-wheel with your two outside guys, a lot of young corners will not communicate it anyway. And if they do, well, you either have somebody underneath both of those or something running underneath the post.

I like the numbered tree you have. If nothing else, I would take some aspects of it.

I love sitting down and talking football. Theories, plays, philosophies, it's just fun to me. Glad to see somebody else who seems to have that same passion. lol

Again, Scot, appreciate the time it took to right that out!

[Mr. Scot]

Happy to help