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Roster Building 101

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted

So you’re trying to settle on a prediction for the 53 man roster. Cool. Here’s a quick tip on building a roster that makes sense.

Start with 45 :)

One of the big things folks often fail to take into account is that the team has to deactivate 8 players each game. Let’s say, for example, that you keep a certain guy over one of his competitors as the 5th corner or 6th receiver because of his abilities as a return specialist. Sounds logical, except that if he’s that far down on the depth chart, he likely won’t be activated on gameday. If he’s not active, then the return ability is meaningless.

Still, it could be okay as long as you kept someone else ahead of him that’s also a capable returner. But wait, if that guy can do returns, then what was the value in keeping the first guy over someone else, especially if that someone else might not be able to do returns, but is a better position player?

Likewise, let’s say you picked someone to be the 9th defensive lineman or the 7th linebacker because he’s a special teams demon. That’s great, but in order to keep him active on gameday, you have to deactivate someone else. Do you do that at his position when there’s a more talented position guy in front of him? If not, then what other position do you short to keep him on the field?

Not so easy being an NFL head coach, is it? :confused5:

Thus, as a way to keep from running into errors like this, start off picking only he number of guys that will actually be active on gameday.

For the Panthers, that often looks something like this:

_______________________________________________________________________

Quarterbacks: 2

Runningbacks: 3

Fullbacks: 1

Wide Receivers: 4

Tight Ends: 3*

Centers: 1 **

Guards: 4

Tackles: 3

Defensive Tackles: 3 ***

Defensive Tackles: 4

Middle Linebackers: 2

Strong Side Linebackers: 2

Weak Side Linebackers: 2

Strong Safeties: 2

Free Safeties: 2

Cornerbacks: 4

Punter: 1

Kicker: 1

Long Snapper: 1

* Some teams ctivate only two tight ends. The Panthers could go this route, but with the current lineup being three deep, they tend to activate the entire trio.

** The backup center is usually one of the guards. Similarly, the backup fullback tends to be one of the runningbacks.

*** The team generally keeps nine defensive linemen, four of each with one extra DT or DE, so sometimes the number of active spots at those two positions may flip-flop.

_______________________________________________________________________

That’s 45. Pick the best players for these spots, remembering to keep at least one or two guys that can also do returns and/or serve as special teams gunners.

Once you’ve got those players picked, you can generally pick the rest by choosing one extra guy for depth at eight of the above positions.

Some tips on which positions to choose:

_______________________________________________________________________

- Generally speaking, the team keeps three QBs, but they have been known to keep only two. It frees up another roster spot, but you will have to deactivate someone else too.

- If you want to keep that extra kicker, you’ll need to short one of the other spots, and adjust your gameday roster to account for that.

- Although a second kicker is a possibility this season, you can pretty much leave punter and long snapper out of the position choices for your final eight.

- It’s also pretty rare for the team to keep a second fullback, a second pure center or a fourth tight end, so you can be fairly safe leaving those spots out.

_______________________________________________________________________

An added tip: It’s wise to remember that as often as not, the Panthers pick up a few “fringe” players from other team’s cuts. Therefore, if you’re looking at a choice between two guys to fill a final spot and you think, ‘neither of these guys is that good”, you can allow for the possibility that maybe that last spot will go to a player who went to camp somewhere else.

And a quick FYI: Gantt's roster prediction included 7 linebackers and only 8 D-Linemen. It's a legitimate possibility, especially when you factor in special teams considerations. Me? I'm sticking with the usual 9/6, but I could be wrong.

So there you go. Plot it out this way, and you’re more likely to have a roster that looks like one the Panthers could actually settle on.

Of course, even for those of us who follow this plan, when the final roster is actually published, we’ll all still likely look at it and in one or more places find ourselves saying, “Whoa, I didn’t say that coming” :lol:

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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My Active 45:

QB: Moore, Clausen

RB: Williams, Stewart, Sutton

FB: Fiammetta

WR: Smith, LaFell, Edwards, Martin

TE: King, Rosario, Barnidge

C: Kalil

G: Wharton, Bernadeau, An Outside Pickup, Robinson

T: Gross, Otah, Schwartz

DT: Leonard, E Johnson, Tyler

DE: Brayton, C Johnson, Brown, Hardy

MLB: Connor (only one here because Beason is the backup)

SLB: Anderson, Williams, Norwood

WLB: Beason, Senn (if his ankle is okay)

SS Godfrey, Francisco (special teamer)

FS Martin, Pugh

CB Gamble, Marshall, Munnerlyn, Wilson

P: Baker

K: Kasay

LS: Jansen

My 8 reserves:

QB Cantwell

RB Goodson

WR Gettis

T Williams or an outside pickup (possibly Petitti but I doubt it)

DT Landri

DT Irvin

SS Hudson

CB Stanford

My practice squad choices are:

QB Pike

RB Vaughn

FB Jackson

WR Guy (or Gettis, depending on the outcome; I still think it's possible Guy becomes an IR stash)

C-G Davis (or an outsider)

DT Neblett (or an outsider)

K Carter (if he isn't kept)

CB whoever loses the final spot between McClain/Stanford.

Some quick points:

- it wouldn't be that great a shock to see only two QBs and Todd Carter kept for kickoffs, but I don't think it'll happen.

- The third QB could also be an outside pickup. Neither Cantwell nor Pike is all that great, in my opinion.

- I see at least a decent possibility for Bernadeau to be displaced as a starter if the outside guard is good enough.

- Final active DT spot could fall to Landri over Tyler. That spot might be somewhat fluid.

- As mentioned previously, Gantt keeps only 8 DL and adds Nic Harris as a 7th LB. It could happen, but I'm sticking with the usual MO.

- If Senn's ankle is bad, it could be good news for Nic Harris or Quinton Culbertson, or maybe even for former Panther and recent Bear release Tim Shaw.

- I could conceivably see keeping Witherspoon as the fifth CB and putting both McClain and Stanford on the practice squad, but I don't expect it.

And some larger points:

Yes, I cut Dwayne Jarrett and kept David Gettis, who I made inactive. that's a very recent change of mind and I'm by no means certain of it. If Jarrett stays or if outside help at WR is obtained, then I think LaFell is deactivated. I would have said Edwards prior to the last game, and I still see that as a possibility. bottom Line: Of all the positions, this is the one most up in the air (though right guard is close).

My return guys are Edwards, Sutton and Munnerlyn. I know this won't be popular with Mike Goodson fans. Yes, Goodson could displace Sutton as he's a better returner, but Sutton can do returns, is a better special teamer and might (might) be a better backup RB too.

And last, let's not forget Thomas Davis. If he is indeed able to return this season, then either the number 9 DL or the number 7 LB will be the most likely guy out of luck. Might be wise to keep that in mind as you look at your roster.

My picks, for what they're worth.

(all the speculation will be obsolete in the next 48 hours regardless)

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twylyght Rookie

twylyght

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Are we not still doing emergency QBs?

As expected there is a lot of overlap in our expectations, but I was thinking that Edwards would be put on the 45 lineup only if we kept 1 active QB for the 45 and Clausen as the emergency QB in place. Also, I definitely see Sutton seeing a consistent activation on the 45 list with Goodson getting gameplanning activations for particular opponents if not for injury fill-ins.

Also, I have yet to see anything from Robinson to warrant a regular activation on the 45 squad with Hisatake, Davis, and even Duckworth doing more in their chances to show their abilities and motivation. Moreover, when Otah comes back, I see Schwartz getting more of a look to play that right guard spot behind or even with Bernadeau.

Lastly, there is a lot riding on the decision on whether or not to drop a kickoff specialist spot to Carter. I was surprised that the team went that route before as roster spots are so tight on game day as you mentioned before. That may play a hand in whether or not Rashawn Jackson will make the 53 man roster in 12 hours.

Good write up as always man. Looking forward to see how things are going to play out this year.

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DickolausJ Newbie

DickolausJ

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I also don't see Duke being active on gameday atleast early in the season and Otah obviosly won't be on the active roster till probably week 3.

Norwood is another player I essiantly see inactive early in the season since he played most the preseason with his hands in the dirt and we already have four capable pass rushers.

I got both Tyler and Landri being active on gamedays.

I got McClain making the team and Stanford on the PS. I got Hudson active ahead of Fransisco. Hell I got Fransisco being outright cut due to injury and the fact he sucks in coverage.

The Goodson/Sutton arguement could go either way. Same with Harris/Senn.

I think Carter will make it.

The never ending story comes down to the cluster you know what at WR. I'm sure the FO is scartching their heads right now over what to do with Jarrett.

Also I'm the number one Gettis fan on here but I still see us trying to bring in a reciever or 2 off waivers. That could mean the PS for my boy Gettis unless he can beat out Edwards in the slot. Which I think he can.

I know Witherspoon is a popular guy around here but I just don't see it happening. Also I vote we stick both Hunter and Pike on the PS and see what the hell happens.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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there was some discussion in one of the armanti edwards threads about making him the emergency QB. i was one of those people but since then i've changed my mind...mainly because i looked at the rules and i realize that it won't work.

if a team has no more than 2 QBs on it's game day roster, they can be allowed a QB to only be used in an emergency. the catcher is that once that QB hits the field, none of the other QBs are allowed to return. not cool for the "mountaineer" package.

the NFL is watching that closely because they know that teams are going to be trying to skirt around that rule. every week before every game official will have a list of bona fide QBs playing for each team. not necessarily just players listed as QBs, but those players who could step up and fill the role if needed. that means if you have a QB who is listed as a WR but you have him either working as a QB (in other words, behind center in wildcat formations) on a regular basis or he is someone that has played QB before with a regular basis and can play it if needed then you will not be allowed a 46th emergency QB. teams have to present their 45 man roster to officials 90 minutes before each game and those officials have the right to say that you can or can't have an emergency QB based on who you have in the 45.

the dolphins had to make the decision last year what to do with pat white. they had chad henne and chad pennington on the roster. they didn't feel comfortable with white being considered a full time QB back up. if they wanted to have a legit emergency back up, pat white wouldn't be allowed to be on the 45 man roster.

the eagles last year weren't either. they said that vick was going to be used in a variety of packages and not any one particular role hoping not to have to list him as a QB, that way they could have an emergency QB but that didn't fly. they had mcnabb and kolb on the roster already. whether they wanted vick listed as a QB or not didn't matter, he was going to be their third QB.

that means, since edwards entire college career was as a QB and he is being worked in some packages as the QB, he will keep us from being allowed that emergency role. considering how many ways the panthers are trying to get him involved, i doubt seriously that he won't be active on game days, regardless of how "green" he is.

an option that we have is to consider edwards as the backup to moore and list clausen as the emergency back up but i don't think that will fly at all. they don't have edwards listed as a QB. clausen is his backup and who they want groomed for the job. if moore were to need a breather or needed to recover from a suh on delhomme type hit for a few minutes, then clausen wouldn't be allowed to go in unless moore was going to sit out the rest of the game and edwards wouldn't be allowed to be on the field either (or maybe he would but just not under center, i'll have to look further into that). i don't see the panthers feeling good about edwards being that guy they turn to giving moore a breather. they need clausen to be that guy.

so, if you're thinking about trying to list someone as an emergency QB on your rosters, think again. it probably isn't going to happen.

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Squirrel Collaborator

Squirrel

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I can see only 2 QB's

And Edwards on the deactive squad as a QB/WR

Freeing up a spot on 53 for Carter.

Cantwell and Pike need to go

If QB becomes a problem or injuries set in , go out during season and pick up a vet

Edwards could be the emergency QB that would give us 46 dressed.

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