Ranking the owners: JR #3

[bigcuz]

1) He means that the owners gave in to a deal in the last CBA to keep football going but it was a bad deal and thus the reason for the escape clause they used that created this issue in the first place. That CBA would have never been approved or supported if they knew that the economy was going to tank the way it did but were smart enough to place a clause in the CBA that would allow them to get out of it in case it did.

2) No, the 60/40 scale is not fair as compared to every other company in the world and compared to every business model there is out there. A business is considered to be in good financial standing if they can keep their personel salaries under 52%. That number is generally suggested for non-profits as it allows a business to tread water. In order to be considered a successfully financial company personel salaries should be around 40%. But lets not forget that the players are not the only "personel" on staff for the NFL. There is the league office, officials, coaches, assistants, scouts, trainers, stadium employees and front office staff including the GM. Why did so many front office employees lose there jobs across the NFL over the last two years? Because the players had to be paid...

3) The Carolina Panthers nor any other team is a publicly traded company and thus do not have to disclose any of their financial records. They do however give a gereral report, which is more than they have to do. I'm sorry but how many companys to you know of that disclose their financials to the public or for that matter even the employees. Non-profit or publicly traded company, yes. But that is not what the Panthers are. In my opinion, team owners have been more than generous in allowing the NFLPA to see the amount they have. How would the players feel if the owners asked that every player disclose publicly their finances?

Very well explained - thank you.

I have a couple of questions that are a slight digression, but related to the topic at hand.

Questions -

1 - If Owners vs NFLPA do not reach an agreement for next season, what happens as far as games next season? No games or games with non-NFLPA "scabs"?

2 - Will PSL owners likely have to pay "full price" for season tickets if no agreement is reached?

I would appreciate knowledgeable responses.

[pstall]

More often than not, when it comes to Unions vs Owners etc. The only way out of the prior deal if one party refuses to budge...bankruptcy.

[Squirrel]

Very well explained - thank you.

I have a couple of questions that are a slight digression, but related to the topic at hand.

Questions -

1 - If Owners vs NFLPA do not reach an agreement for next season, what happens as far as games next season? No games or games with non-NFLPA "scabs"?

2 - Will PSL owners likely have to pay "full price" for season tickets if no agreement is reached?

I would appreciate knowledgeable responses.

1. The owners could use scabs to play next season. If it is drawn out a arbitrator could be assigned to work out a deal.

2. Yes will still have to pay for price.

[Lumps]

Because the players had to be paid...

Yes, players like jamarcus russelll.

Both parties have viable arguments and the whole situation needs to be addressed. No need for no one to get paid though.

[mountainpantherfan]

Very well explained - thank you.

I have a couple of questions that are a slight digression, but related to the topic at hand.

Questions -

1 - If Owners vs NFLPA do not reach an agreement for next season, what happens as far as games next season? No games or games with non-NFLPA "scabs"?

2 - Will PSL owners likely have to pay "full price" for season tickets if no agreement is reached?

I would appreciate knowledgeable responses.

The reality is that there are no answers to those questions.

1) The owners have guarenteed money coming from the TV contracts even if games aren't played so if they do bring in scabs it would be to justify...

2) charing the PSL and season ticket holders. By contract, as I understand it, PSL owners are obligated to buy the tickets or lose their PSL. Does that stand firm in the event of a lock-out? I'm not a PSL owner so I've never seen the specific language in the paper work one fills out. It would probably also differ from team to team as some teams don't have PSL and only have season ticket holders.

I really don't see the advantage in playing the games if a lock-out occurs but at this point in time no one really knows for sure.

[mountainpantherfan]

Yes, players like jamarcus russelll.

Both parties have viable arguments and the whole situation needs to be addressed. No need for no one to get paid though.

Excuse me if I'm wrong but I think you missed the point.

The players have a CBA in which guarenttes them, collectively, to make a minumum, at that point in time, and a maximum amount of money. Every owner had to pay out around $100 million last year. That HAD TO.

Several teams, not the Panthers, have had to give some very bad contracts out over the last couple of years so to reach the minimum. And many of those teams were the ones that also had to lay off the most people who were not players.

To me, the players would have a much better PR leg to stand on if they insisted on all NFL related employees be included in the CBA. Not that the NFL wants that to happen but as it always happens when dealing with unions, non-union people get screwed so that union people get ahead.

[gmonet]

That little photo in the upper left carried a strong story for me. BUT! The one thing I can tell you, he had just made his first trip back to the lair...as the photo shows was "thinned" out, but as fragile as he was, when a few started chatting he very softly, but with great emphisis, said to give him silence...you have NEVER heard a room go as quiet as fast as his offce at that moment! 5 minutes later the photo op...

Mr. Richardson deserves and commands respect! Do not forget the fiscal soundness of his decisions, like them or not..as excellently pointed out here.

[Wither]

NFL is more important to JR than the people who support his business.

Can't say I blame him; the NFL gave him a franchise.

I also don't think he is doing anything wrong by being ballsy to stand up against the players union.

The problem is most fans see the estimated worth of a franchise and assume that the owner has that much cash or something. They probably think the owner is turning a ridiculous profit, which they may or may not be. From their perspective "1 million" is a ridiculous profit, whereas the owner is factoring in future business decisions based on said profits. To be honest, they might want to take Microeconomics.

[bigcuz]

The reality is that there are no answers to those questions.

I'm not a PSL owner so I've never seen the specific language in the paper work one fills out.

I really don't see the advantage in playing the games if a lock-out occurs but at this point in time no one really knows for sure.

Thanks, mountainpantherfan

1 - I'll check my PSL paperwork, if I can still find it - ha, ha. I read it a few years back but my recollection is that all protections were for Panthers, Inc.

2 - I'm an old fart and remember a player strike many years ago [maybe the 60's ??] where the owners trotted out scabs for TV - it was sad.

PS - when you are in town, please come by the Huddle tailgate and ask for me - I'd like to meet ya ! -Big Cuz

[gmonet]

Can't say I blame him; the NFL gave him a franchise.

I also don't think he is doing anything wrong by being ballsy to stand up against the players union.

The problem is most fans see the estimated worth of a franchise and assume that the owner has that much cash or something. They probably think the owner is turning a ridiculous profit, which they may or may not be. From their perspective "1 million" is a ridiculous profit, whereas the owner is factoring in future business decisions based on said profits. To be honest, they might want to take Microeconomics.

He got investors by the thousands from the "small people" who work their asses off 5-6 DAW, for the right to "own" a piece of the pie. When JR got the PSL'ers he proved he could own/operate a team with speculation at a minimum. Look who holds the bag...you own this seat for a price, you agreed to pay for tickets to every home game in every year we play, and if we suck bottom...It's still my franchise. It was the PSL'ers that made a team reality in the Carolinas, saved a team in the Carolinas and will assure this is no Pie in the Sky effort.

He'll make us mad, but you gotta love him for what he did! He has thrown 19 million to a guy who showed us nothing but mediocrity most of the time, and then paid another almost the same when it was fairly obvious it likely would get us little in return, but it kept the team rolling...Obamanomics isn't it?

[Anybodyhome]

1. I'm looking for it myself. But here's the follow-up comment- the lockout has to be announced by the owners on March 1, which is when the current CBA is officially dead. We aren't billed for tickets until sometime in April... about 6 weeks after an announcement would have been made. Kind of ridiculous to get a bill from the team that just told you there won't be a season a few weeks prior, eh?

[pstall]

NFL is an LLC. Do your homework on those. A game changer a couple of years ago if not sooner was a cirucuit court hearing about the NFL's structure. If I can find that link I will share.

[Wither]

He got investors by the thousands from the "small people" who work their asses off 5-6 DAW, for the right to "own" a piece of the pie. When JR got the PSL'ers he proved he could own/operate a team with speculation at a minimum. Look who holds the bag...you own this seat for a price, you agreed to pay for tickets to every home game in every year we play, and if we suck bottom...It's still my franchise. It was the PSL'ers that made a team reality in the Carolinas, saved a team in the Carolinas and will assure this is no Pie in the Sky effort.

He'll make us mad, but you gotta love him for what he did! He has thrown 19 million to a guy who showed us nothing but mediocrity most of the time, and then paid another almost the same when it was fairly obvious it likely would get us little in return, but it kept the team rolling...Obamanomics isn't it?

Uh, ok.

So maybe they shouldn't have invested?

[bigcuz]

He got investors by the thousands from the "small people" who work their asses off 5-6 DAW, for the right to "own" a piece of the pie. When JR got the PSL'ers he proved he could own/operate a team with speculation at a minimum. Look who holds the bag...you own this seat for a price, you agreed to pay for tickets to every home game in every year we play, and if we suck bottom...It's still my franchise. It was the PSL'ers that made a team reality in the Carolinas, saved a team in the Carolinas and will assure this is no Pie in the Sky effort.

gmonet, You have it slightly wrong - the PSL sales only allowed JR to build the stadium without using tax money - that's all. PSLs had nothing to do with buying the franchise - he [and partners] paid for that and now he owns that, too. JR is a damned smart businessman.

Yes, I agree that we may suffer this year with the 'youth movement' but we WILL be competing for Superbowl again in near future - after CBA is settled. That is, if the Big Cat doesn't die before he can get us there.