Fox to Cleveland?

[Raskle]

There is no double standard. Fox stuck with him too long. Everyone wanted him gone. Then Moore comes in and saves his ass. Everyone wants him to stay. Why does Fox get the credit for a change that was too late to begin with? Why does that out weigh his decision to stick with a broken player too long and make people change their mind? He failed to make the changes needed earlier in order to save our season. Just because he finally started Moore too late doesn't excuse his stubborness enough to me to make me want him to stay.

I'm honestly beginning to believe, more and more, that the leaving Jake in so long last season was a handed down decision from the front office. Not sure why - it just feels like it, as this has happened before in the past.

[Raskle]

I'll self-quote my thoughts from another post exactly like this one:

We all know Fox is a conservative coach, which overall is good for us, but one thing that has always pissed me off has been his inability to adjust at halftime. It's killed us in more games than I'd like to remember. Also, his seemingly notorious acceptance of settling for 'three points too often' drives me bat sh*t too. I'd like to see his more aggressive side come to the fore, like it was when he first got here. He challenged his players to play harder and tougher than they had been, because he knew they were capable of doing so. I'd like to see his gum-chewing accompany the ass-kicking attitude of yesteryear again. He's not had a good track record of this since 2005, imo, and it'll be hard to accept his retention if he continues this way.

There is hope though that he's decided to change his habits. I know JR had a lot to do with the vet releases, but Fox had to sign off on them. To me, this shows he's capable of changing his ways from previous years where he'd hold on to vets and start them until they dissipated into dust. I won't be surprised if there's five or six rookies or 2nd year guys starting this year. At least a bunch will get heavy rotation time, which is a good thing that we've needed for years now.

If he can do all this, then by all means, I'd love to have Foxy back again for another tour of duty. Just remember though Fox, nice guys don't win ball games all too often. When the other team is down, kick em in the doughnuts, step on their necks, and spit in their eye when they look up at you! Get back to your roots man... challenge your team and yourself to be tougher and perform better. Carolina needs it.

This is how I feel about Fox right now.

[Cyberjag]

Your point was that a coach needs to have a franchise QB to win consistently. I did not ignore that, I showed evidence of a coach who won consistently without a franchise QB. I agree that it certainly helps, but it is not necessary. The Ravens won the Superbowl with Dilfer.

What will happen if Fox gets a top tier QB? We can only speculate. My guess is that said player will not be used to his full potential. Fox's offense is not an aggressive, high flying style. I just don't see a Brees type QB flourishing here...which probably has something to do with why we didn't go after him when he was a free agent. We did, however, draft Clausen, so here's to hoping that he turns into everything the hype says he will.

I'll agree with you there.

Brees is a bad example, by the way. He had one good season in SD where he flashed potential, and was coming off shoulder surgery. That was also when Jake was at his best. I can't imagine any coach who would want to pull the trigger on that deal, unless they were thinking of Brees as a backup (which he wasn't going to take).

The better example is Rogers, where Fox was one of the many to let him slide by on draft day. Of course, Davis hasn't been that bad for us either...

[rayzor]

Anyone we would potentially replace Fox with is nowhere near his level.

Why people want the best coach in the history of the panthers to leave town is beyond me.

jake delhomme was the best QB in franchise history.

[PantherBob]

Added some comments in there for you. But I get you now. Haters are gonna hate, and the shoe fits.

BTW, Fox inherited a 1-15 football team, and has gone 71-57 with two NFC Championships and a Super Bowl appearance. He's never done worse than 7-9, and his teams always play hard in December. Not too shabby, IMHO.

Allow me to enlighten you:

Ken Whisenhunt - Took over one of the worst franchises in professional sports that had only won 1 playoff game in the last 50 years and instantly made them a perenial playoff team. And they were 5-11 when he inherited them.

Jeff Fisher- Really? Fisher has had back to back playoff teams on several occasions. Something Fox has yet to do.

Shanahan - Shanahan still had the broncos in the playoffs several times after Elway retired. He is a shoe in for the HOF. Its not even debateable if he's better than Fox or Seifert.

John Harbagh inherited a 5-11 team with a terrible offense and went to an AFC title game with a rookie QB in his first season and made another deep run last year.

McCarthy - Inherited a bad 4-12 team and turned them into an offensive power house by taking a chance with an unknown QB. Something Fox would be terrified to do.

Sparano - inherited a 1-15 with no talent. Had a great draft in 2008 and won a division in his first year.

Coughlin - Might want to do some research before you throw poo up on the wall and hope that it sticks. Coughlin took an expansion team to the playoffs 5 out of their first 6 years including two AFC title games and has taken the Giants to the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. Oh yeah, and he also won this thing called the SB. If you were referring to last season the team was injured. In fact, they were in the playoff hunt until week 16. Frankly, Fox isnt even in Coughlins league because he is far more consistent.

Rex Ryan: GOD!

Mike Tomlin: If 9-7 is his worst season after winning the SB then it must speak volumes to how good he is.

Singletary: Took over a bad 49ers and has made them respectable. You guys give Fox kudos for going 8-8 with a roster full of talent. Singletary has done it with hardly any talent at all. Can you say Alex Smith?

Norv Turner: Ill admit this might have been a reach. Im impressed with what he has done in SD. At worst, Turer is equal to Fox.

Childress: Fox already has a great running game and a good defense

Lewis: Has accomplished almost as much as Fox in the same amount of time.

Bottomline, Fox slurpers are going to slurp and you're doing a fine job of it.

[Jangler]

what is your criteria for ranking these?

dick size

[Jangler]

Because a lot of people are too busy riding this guys jock.

Yup, and I am still trying to remember the real reason he has been in NC for the last two years. Anybody?

[Mother Grabber]

Yup, and I am still trying to remember the real reason he has been in NC for the last two years. Anybody?

[rayzor]

Allow me to enlighten you:

Ken Whisenhunt - Took over one of the worst franchises in professional sports that had only won 1 playoff game in the last 50 years and instantly made them a perenial playoff team. And they were 5-11 when he inherited them.

Jeff Fisher- Really? Fisher has had back to back playoff teams on several occasions. Something Fox has yet to do.

Shanahan - Shanahan still had the broncos in the playoffs several times after Elway retired. He is a shoe in for the HOF. Its not even debateable if he's better than Fox or Seifert.

John Harbagh inherited a 5-11 team with a terrible offense and went to an AFC title game with a rookie QB in his first season and made another deep run last year.

McCarthy - Inherited a bad 4-12 team and turned them into an offensive power house by taking a chance with an unknown QB. Something Fox would be terrified to do.

Sparano - inherited a 1-15 with no talent. Had a great draft in 2008 and won a division in his first year.

Coughlin - Might want to do some research before you throw poo up on the wall and hope that it sticks. Coughlin took an expansion team to the playoffs 5 out of their first 6 years including two AFC title games and has taken the Giants to the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. Oh yeah, and he also won this thing called the SB. If you were referring to last season the team was injured. In fact, they were in the playoff hunt until week 16. Frankly, Fox isnt even in Coughlins league because he is far more consistent.

Rex Ryan: GOD!

Mike Tomlin: If 9-7 is his worst season after winning the SB then it must speak volumes to how good he is.

Singletary: Took over a bad 49ers and has made them respectable. You guys give Fox kudos for going 8-8 with a roster full of talent. Singletary has done it with hardly any talent at all. Can you say Alex Smith?

Norv Turner: Ill admit this might have been a reach. Im impressed with what he has done in SD. At worst, Turer is equal to Fox.

Childress: Fox already has a great running game and a good defense

Lewis: Has accomplished almost as much as Fox in the same amount of time.

Bottomline, Fox slurpers are going to slurp and you're doing a fine job of it.

i'll buy all of these except fisher, turner, childress, and lewis. fox is better than these guys or at least on par with them. turner is overrated. childress is a hack.

i'm no fan of fisher and despite his putting together multiple winning seasons, has no better record than fox and i feel confident saying that fox has done better than fisher. fox has never gone below 7-9. fisher has done that 3 times. also, when looking at their playoff record, despite being an HC 8 more years than fox, he only has 3 more playoff wins.

that isn't saying that fox is a bad coach. i more feel that it means that fisher is a bad coach as well and probably worse. that he has had his job this long is nothing short of miraculous.

[thefuzz]

i'll buy all of these except fisher, turner, childress, and lewis. fox is better than these guys or at least on par with them. turner is overrated. childress is a hack.

i'm no fan of fisher and despite his putting together multiple winning seasons, has no better record than fox and i feel confident saying that fox has done better than fisher. fox has never gone below 7-9. fisher has done that 3 times. also, when looking at their playoff record, despite being an HC 8 more years than fox, he only has 3 more playoff wins.

that isn't saying that fox is a bad coach. i more feel that it means that fisher is a bad coach as well and probably worse. that he has had his job this long is nothing short of miraculous.

I am not really sure where all the Turner hate comes from...the media...or maybe from his stints in Washington and Oakland. (honestly judging from those two places)

He is the third most winning coach since he became a HC this time...with Philips and Belichick being ahead of him. 12-4, 8-8, 13-3 since he took over the Chargers job. Has been to an AFC Championship game, and has never been beaten in the wild card game of the playoffs.

He has also beaten Indy twice in the playoffs. That alone is worth something.

P.S. he has not missed the playoffs as the coach of the Chargers...he even got the much sought after......back to back playoff berths.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

i'll buy all of these except fisher, turner, childress, and lewis. fox is better than these guys or at least on par with them. turner is overrated. childress is a hack.

i'm no fan of fisher and despite his putting together multiple winning seasons, has no better record than fox and i feel confident saying that fox has done better than fisher. fox has never gone below 7-9. fisher has done that 3 times. also, when looking at their playoff record, despite being an HC 8 more years than fox, he only has 3 more playoff wins.

that isn't saying that fox is a bad coach. i more feel that it means that fisher is a bad coach as well and probably worse. that he has had his job this long is nothing short of miraculous.

Fisher is the John Fox of the AFC. Take that for what you will.

[HPPantherzfan]

Fox isn't half the coach some of you give him credit for! And of course Gruden is going to say nice things about him, Gruden is the Paula Abdul of MNF, its his job to say nice things about EVERY ONE...go back and listen to his comentary so far, every team he talks about is going to the playoffs!!!! PLEASE!!! Give a real head coach the talent Foxxy boy has had and we would already have multiple SB's IMO. If only...

[MadHatter]

Allow me to enlighten you:

Ken Whisenhunt - Took over one of the worst franchises in professional sports that had only won 1 playoff game in the last 50 years and instantly made them a perenial playoff team. And they were 5-11 when he inherited them.

Jeff Fisher- Really? Fisher has had back to back playoff teams on several occasions. Something Fox has yet to do.

Shanahan - Shanahan still had the broncos in the playoffs several times after Elway retired. He is a shoe in for the HOF. Its not even debateable if he's better than Fox or Seifert.

John Harbagh inherited a 5-11 team with a terrible offense and went to an AFC title game with a rookie QB in his first season and made another deep run last year.

McCarthy - Inherited a bad 4-12 team and turned them into an offensive power house by taking a chance with an unknown QB. Something Fox would be terrified to do.

Sparano - inherited a 1-15 with no talent. Had a great draft in 2008 and won a division in his first year.

Coughlin - Might want to do some research before you throw poo up on the wall and hope that it sticks. Coughlin took an expansion team to the playoffs 5 out of their first 6 years including two AFC title games and has taken the Giants to the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. Oh yeah, and he also won this thing called the SB. If you were referring to last season the team was injured. In fact, they were in the playoff hunt until week 16. Frankly, Fox isnt even in Coughlins league because he is far more consistent.

Rex Ryan: GOD!

Mike Tomlin: If 9-7 is his worst season after winning the SB then it must speak volumes to how good he is.

Singletary: Took over a bad 49ers and has made them respectable. You guys give Fox kudos for going 8-8 with a roster full of talent. Singletary has done it with hardly any talent at all. Can you say Alex Smith?

Norv Turner: Ill admit this might have been a reach. Im impressed with what he has done in SD. At worst, Turer is equal to Fox.

Childress: Fox already has a great running game and a good defense

Lewis: Has accomplished almost as much as Fox in the same amount of time.

Bottomline, Fox slurpers are going to slurp and you're doing a fine job of it.

Allow me to enlighten you:

Ken Whisenhunt - Coaches in the God Awful NFC East. A high school team can win that division.

Jeff Fisher- teams are always competetive, but nothing more.

Shanahan - Good Coach. No arguements here.

John Harbagh inherited a 5-11 team with a terrible offense and went to an AFC title game with a rookie QB in his first season and made another deep run last year.

McCarthy - went through some lean years. Finally has an elite QB and is now well positioned.

Sparano - over rated. Only reason they won that year was Brady went down.

Coughlin - teams have been very up and down for the past few years. Not much diff than Fox.

Rex Ryan: Fat Slob. Backed into the playoffs as the beneficiary of his last two opponents taking the game off. Has proven NOTHING as a Head Coach.

Mike Tomlin: Inheritied a SB winning team. Shut up...not even related to teh arguement.

Singletary: 49ers are still a bad team.

Norv Turner: Joke of a coach

Childress: Best DLine in football and Peterson. However, it took a HOF QB to get him a playoff run. Chilly is not a good coach.

Lewis: The Benglas has been a mess his entire tenure...try again.

[AceMan]

Fisher is the John Fox of the AFC. Take that for what you will.

I was just about to say this.

Just slightly better