Fox to Cleveland?

[KillerKat]

I want a coach that doesnt already have his depth chart set in stone in his mind and makes changes in areas gone bad instead of sticking with the bad player (or players) over and over again and hoping for the best. I want a coach whose gameplan isn't so obvious and actually plans a game against the opposition instead of trying to make the opposition hail to our gameplan when its not working. I want a coach that will make halftime adjustments and knows how to manage the clock. I want a coach that isn't so conservative it cripples the team. The kind of coach that I want isn't Fox.

[KillerKat]

Let's see. I have a QB going through a slump that, prior to this season, has been a very decent player for me and a benefit to the team as a whole. Should I let him work through this and hopefully return to a higher level of play or go with my young backup who doesn't show up enough in preseason or practice for me to get a good bead on.

I'm sure this isn't anywhere near what went through Fox's head and he wanted to tank the season for nefarious purposes.

Part of the reason Delhomme was in for so long was your boy Moore's fault as well.

So shitting the bed in a playoff game plus 11 more bad games is just what it takes to realize a change needs to be made? Fox should've realized a change needed to be made after the bye week.

[Cat]

No its on point. We were ready to fire him until Moore saved his ass. Then you attempted to give all that credit to Fox when he made that change too late to save our season in the first place and had to come up with a phantom injury in order to make that change.

Such a double standard. lol

[Cyberjag]

Some people on this board have the most brilliant hindsight imaginable...

I don't like how Fox stuck by Crossman, but that may have some Hurney in it as well.

I don't like how he's stayed with some veterans, even when I understand the probable reasons.

The bend but don't break philosophy that drives so many of us nuts is one he's always had.

I don't care for the lack of quotable quotes.

I don't like his choice of offensive coordinator. I wasn't too thrilled about Meeks but he won me over. I would love to see the next Sean Payton as our OC, but it will never happen under Fox.

I do like feeling like we have a shot at winning every game we play.

I like going in to every season honestly thinking that we should be able to win more than we lose.

I like having games in November and December with playoff implications.

I like the distance we're putting in between us and our last truly atrocious season (I went to all of the 1-15 home games). I think that may give some of us a little perspective that the folks who were in high school at the time don't appreciate.

I like how his players speak of him. The ones that don't like him, like Jenkins, don't seem like they like too many people anyway.

I really like the character of his teams, and Hurney gets part of that. No more Shawn Kings, Jason Peters, and Rae Carruths.

On balance, I like Fox. He won't be here forever, and I look forward to the hope a new coach will bring. But I like what we have now, and hope he can remain here and be as consistent and successful as he's always been. Because it sure beats what we had before.

[KillerKat]

Such a double standard. lol

Fox killed our season last year. Wheres the double standard?

[Mother Grabber]

Anyone we would potentially replace Fox with is nowhere near his level.

Why people want the best coach in the history of the panthers to leave town is beyond me.

Just because he's the winningest/best coach in our history, that doesn't mean that he is a good/great coach. The two things are mutually exclusive. You can have the three worst coaches in the league standing together, yet one of them has to be the best of the bunch.

I don't think he's a bad coach, I just don't think we will ever have a consistently dominant program while he is here. He's too conservative and doesn't have the ability to adapt to the change in the league. The game time decisions just seem weak and scared.

The media is constantly hugging his nuts saying that he's a great coach. When I hear things like that, I keep going back to results. So far, his 'greatness' is 3 winning seasons out of 8. Sorry, but that's not great.

[Mother Grabber]

Let's see. I have a QB going through a slump that, prior to this season, has been a very decent player for me and a benefit to the team as a whole. Should I let him work through this and hopefully return to a higher level of play or go with my young backup who doesn't show up enough in preseason or practice for me to get a good bead on.

Delhomme stared to go South before last season. In 2008 he had 4 miserable performances during the regular season, CHI, MIN, TB1 and OAK. That's 25% of the season that he sucked out loud. Then, we get to the post season...

[Cyberjag]

Just because he's the winningest/best coach in our history, that doesn't mean that he is a good/great coach. The two things are mutually exclusive. You can have the three worst coaches in the league standing together, yet one of them has to be the best of the bunch.

I don't think he's a bad coach, I just don't think we will ever have a consistently dominant program while he is here. He's too conservative and doesn't have the ability to adapt to the change in the league. The game time decisions just seem weak and scared.

The media is constantly hugging his nuts saying that he's a great coach. When I hear things like that, I keep going back to results. So far, his 'greatness' is 3 winning seasons out of 8. Sorry, but that's not great.

Go here for a minute. Can you give me a coach who *has* had a consistently dominant program without a franchise level QB? I'm of the opinion that you really need one of those more than you need a great coach, and that's an opinion only.

If you're in agreement with that, I have to grant that Fox has never gone out and hunted down that great QB, he's a defensive guy. He likes a game manager, and I don't know what he really wants but it seems a lot like he's more interested in his defense shutting someone down than in his offense outscoring them. And I like that, personally.

So here's the thing. If Clausen becomes a franchise-level guy, or if Moore does, what will that do to Fox? Frankly, Bellichik sucked before he got Brady. Dungy had great defenses but never won the big one without Manning. Cowher needed Big Ben. Do you think the same could apply to Fox, or have you just lost patience with him entirely?

[Cat]

Fox killed our season last year. Wheres the double standard?

Did I say that was a double standard? Read the post I quoted and think about it. If you are smart you will pick up on your double standard.

This board is full of morons.

[Mother Grabber]

Rothlisberger joined the Steelers in 2004. Prior to that, their records under Cowher were:

11-5

9-7

12-4

11-5

10-6

11-5

7-9

6-10

9-7

13-3

10-5

6-10

That's 9 winning seasons out of 12, including 8 playoff appearances. Did he win a superbowl before Ben? No. Did he have a consistently winning team? Yes.

[KillerKat]

Did I say that was a double standard? Read the post I quoted and think about it. If you are smart you will pick up on your double standard.

This board is full of morons.

There is no double standard. Fox stuck with him too long. Everyone wanted him gone. Then Moore comes in and saves his ass. Everyone wants him to stay. Why does Fox get the credit for a change that was too late to begin with? Why does that out weigh his decision to stick with a broken player too long and make people change their mind? He failed to make the changes needed earlier in order to save our season. Just because he finally started Moore too late doesn't excuse his stubborness enough to me to make me want him to stay.

[Sloth]

Delhomme stared to go South before last season. In 2008 he had 4 miserable performances during the regular season, CHI, MIN, TB1 and OAK. That's 25% of the season that he sucked out loud. Then, we get to the post season...

I've bashed Delhomme as overrated many, MANY times in the past. I know he was never a dominant player and that a lot of his flaws were overlooked by fans because of what an awesome guy he was personally.

That said, he was a good player for stretches. EVERY season, he'd have 3-4 games where he flat out stunk and we'd have to try and win in spite of his play, 2008 wasn't an exception. In the end though, he's won games by putting the team on his back, was a great leader of the team and franchise and worked his ass off in practice and on the field.

His backup, Moore, has never really shone at practice, is known for poor pre-season play and until this season has never had much of any personality at all. His relief play however, while spotty, has been mostly successful for the team.

I 100% understand why Fox left Delhomme in. I don't agree with it, but I understand.

[Cyberjag]

Rothlisberger joined the Steelers in 2004. Prior to that, their records under Cowher were:

11-5

9-7

12-4

11-5

10-6

11-5

7-9

6-10

9-7

13-3

10-5

6-10

That's 9 winning seasons out of 12, including 8 playoff appearances. Did he win a superbowl before Ben? No. Did he have a consistently winning team? Yes.

Winning, but hardly dominant. But even if you have that, you have one. Is that all? If you like, I can rattle off several coaches who presided over dominant teams that had franchise quarterbacks. Maybe we'll just agree that it's way the hell more likely.

Which brings up the point you ignored. What if Fox gets one?

[Mother Grabber]

Winning, but hardly dominant. But even if you have that, you have one. Is that all? If you like, I can rattle off several coaches who presided over dominant teams that had franchise quarterbacks. Maybe we'll just agree that it's way the hell more likely.

Which brings up the point you ignored. What if Fox gets one?

Your point was that a coach needs to have a franchise QB to win consistently. I did not ignore that, I showed evidence of a coach who won consistently without a franchise QB. I agree that it certainly helps, but it is not necessary. The Ravens won the Superbowl with Dilfer.

What will happen if Fox gets a top tier QB? We can only speculate. My guess is that said player will not be used to his full potential. Fox's offense is not an aggressive, high flying style. I just don't see a Brees type QB flourishing here...which probably has something to do with why we didn't go after him when he was a free agent. We did, however, draft Clausen, so here's to hoping that he turns into everything the hype says he will.