Don't be too optimistic about future!

[Pumpkin Eater]

understood.

yeah, he messed up. hopefully he learns from his mistake. We'll see.

[Jangler]

[Carolina Husker]

Fox does not deserve to be fired.

Trgovac does.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Oh yeah! well he's ugly and he can't coach and he's stupid and you're stupid for mentioning him! Stop talking about coach fox! He's our coach and he's the best coach ever! :cryin:

not sure who that is directed at, but it's just as knee-jerk as those who want Fox fired in lueu of Cowher.

[engine9]

not sure who that is directed at, but it's just as knee-jerk as those who want Fox fired in lueu of Cowher.

It was directed at Jangler. I quoted him in my post.

[raleigh-panther]

Sometimes, change is needed for the better of the coach and the team.

Dungy was let go from the Bucs. The Bucs won a championship. Dungy went to the Colts and Dungy won a championship.

Sometimes a coach's message is not heard anymore.

I get a little tired of people saying fire this coordinator, fire that coordinator.

The headcoach himself, hired that coordinator, approves that coordinators game plan. Stands on the sidelines with that Coordinator and has eyes to see what is going on.

It should be very much a no brainer to Fox to retool his defensive staff.

If he has to be told to do so, dear Lord, that is unbelievable.

I do feel bad for Delhomme. Its clear he wants to be here. Is a nice guy. Works very hard. At the end of the day, in his time here, his throwing into double-coverage has gotten worse and worse. We have a head coach who does not value grooming a QB.

What kind of legacy will Fox leave? Somebody said HOF, no way, absolutely no way wil lthat happen. He is a top 15 coach with his overall record. If that is good enough and if JR is happy with that, we have no choice do we.

My opinion, Fox seems a little too content and a lot less driven and just a little too happy to be here.

So, Shottenheimer fired. Dungy fired. Shanahan won a ring. He got fired. Sometimes, when the promise and growth isn't there, change is needed. Messages get stale.

As for me with Fox, I always expected a tough as nails defense from him.

It is not that they lose. Its how they lose. They look like stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, interception throwing idiots out there and its not necessary.

[grateflday]

Nobody knows what the future holds. Sure there are issues the Panthers need to correct - but has others have pointed out many teams have gotten blown out in the playoffs then gone on to win Superbowls.

Not that the situations are the same - but the Panthers did blow out the Giants AT HOME, shut them out in 2005.

[Urrymonster]

Only two expansion teams since the merger have won the superbowl and considering the Ravens were actually the Browns I feel they are not a true expansion team. Therefore that leaves one expansion team to have won the superbowl and that is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They were created in 1976 and finally won a bowl in 2002 - thats 26 years waiting. They endured a 26 game losing streak and 14 consecutive losing seasons.

The reason I bring this up is because the Panthers were in the unusual situation of actually becoming quite competitive after only a few years in the league. It has tecnically spoiled us and made us expect success year in year out. Whilst that is a reasonable expectation it is also an unrealistic expectation. The NFL is designed the way it is to always allow teams to compete and thus it is almost impossible to create a dynasty. Look at our history. Our worst stretch is a 3 season losing streak (5 losing seasons in 6) and now compare that to all the other teams. It is completely out of whack. We simply have experienced the amount of success that teams from the creation of the NFL have NEVER experienced. The only problem with that is our expectations are far far too high and that we are actually unused to not making it to the playoffs and certainly not used to losing seasons. Problem is that the odds will stack up against us.

The superbowl is not how coaches are defined. The fact is very few of them actually win. In fact most coaches are credited success for turning a run down franchise into a contender for a prolonged period whether they win a superbowl or not. Some teams have not even won a conference championship yet...

Superbowl rings are what define franchises.

Every team wants one, eventually. So when we have been in the league as long as the other franchises then we can look back at how many rings have been won. For now we have only been in the league 12 seasons and we may have quite a wait on our hands before we actually win the superbowl and we are certainly going to experience losing seasons.

Next season will be tough ebcause of our schedule. It is not out the realms of possibility that we have a losing season next year. The good thing is that we have a great core of determined young players so that the losing seasons will not rack up and we will quickly return to being competitive.

You can expect success but you can't demand it.

[raleigh-panther]

To compare JAX and Carolina (expansion teams) to Tampa Bay is erroneous.

JAX and Carolina were given quiet a few draft picks along with a Free Agent pool which helped make those to teams competitive.

[Urrymonster]

To compare JAX and Carolina (expansion teams) to Tampa Bay is erroneous.

JAX and Carolina were given quiet a few draft picks along with a Free Agent pool which helped make those to teams competitive.

That was hardly the point I was making.

I was merely commenting on the best an expansion team has achieved. If you are not happy with that, consider the teams that have not won and were around since the merger and had less teams to compete with.

[raleigh-panther]

It is not a matter of being happy or unhappy with what you say.

I am merely pointing out that the NFL is not the same as it was in XX decade.

The salaries paid to the players and coaches are unbelieveable. Players even into the 80s frequently worked offseason jobs, no more.

The price I pay as a PSL holder is also quite high. No way in this world would I continue to pay hard earned money to a franchise that had 14 losing seasons and neither would anyone else.

Understand back in those days season tickets didn't come with a seats license and didn't cost a tremendous amount of money.

This era in pro sports for better or worse, is extraordinarily different. The athletes are different and the cost of watching them play very different.

I expect and I do demand consistent effort, no different than my employer expects and demands, not requests, demands, that I perform for my salary.

[guyinchesapeake]

"98 and 99 were his only back to back losing records. 7-9 6-10. "

I'm surprised that no one else caught this. Fox wasn't the coach then, Siefert was.

That said, I'm afraid that too many posters can't see the forest from the trees. This wasn't "just a loss". This wasn't just a 'bad game'. This was a situation that we dreamed of, the best situation of any of the playoff teams in either conference to be in, and we blew it. And what's worse, this wasn't a loss as a result of a hard fought game, it wasn't a loss to a team playing over their heads, this was a game that was for all intents and purposes over before the first quarter ended. Our coaches had no answers for a team that had ONE offensive weapon (Fitzgerald). It had no answer for the funk our QB, and hence team, went into after the QB's first interception. This wasn't 'just a loss', this was a disaster, and it exposed just how lacking our coaching staff is. I truly believe that we won 12 ganes this year in spite of Fox, not because of him. I think our answer may already be on the sideline, we just need to identify who that guy is, if what I said is true about winning in spite of Fox.

Fox must go, and the quicker, the better!

[Kyle82]

We had a great year that ended in a bad game.....it HAPPENS.....the Giants had the same sort of game. :dupe:

[engine9]

"98 and 99 were his only back to back losing records. 7-9 6-10. "

I'm surprised that no one else caught this. Fox wasn't the coach then, Siefert was.

That said, I'm afraid that too many posters can't see the forest from the trees. This wasn't "just a loss". This wasn't just a 'bad game'. This was a situation that we dreamed of, the best situation of any of the playoff teams in either conference to be in, and we blew it. And what's worse, this wasn't a loss as a result of a hard fought game, it wasn't a loss to a team playing over their heads, this was a game that was for all intents and purposes over before the first quarter ended. Our coaches had no answers for a team that had ONE offensive weapon (Fitzgerald). It had no answer for the funk our QB, and hence team, went into after the QB's first interception. This wasn't 'just a loss', this was a disaster, and it exposed just how lacking our coaching staff is. I truly believe that we won 12 ganes this year in spite of Fox, not because of him. I think our answer may already be on the sideline, we just need to identify who that guy is, if what I said is true about winning in spite of Fox.

Fox must go, and the quicker, the better!

he was talking about Cowher.

...in the WRONG forum I might ADD...JANGLER!