Steve Palazzolo and Sam Monson on Panthers free agency

[TheSpecialJuan]

 

[PadresPanthersFan]

I do hope they sold tepper on this process bc while it's long and painful

[csx]

I don't understand the complete love fest over Williams. Good player but he being treated like Donald and he's nothing close to that.

On the surface I'd prefer the 3 in a heartbeat given our situation 

[ECHornet]

4 hours ago, csx said:

I don't understand the complete love fest over Williams. Good player but he being treated like Donald and he's nothing close to that.

On the surface I'd prefer the 3 in a heartbeat given our situation 

We’re more insulated to injury problems with the additional bodies on the defensive line. That I can appreciate, but we can assume Milton was Plan A for us for a reason. 
 

Like those guys mentioned, having an adequate Plan B is a good sign for our front office. Hopefully, it materializes on the field this year. 

Edited 5 hours ago by ECHornet

[pantherclaw]

I didn't agree with they guys in the video.  Which is no surprise to myself. 

No 1 player is going to change the outlook of any team, especially one as bad as ours is 9n defense. 

While I understand their perspective on the fact that we got guys who weren't starters on their other teams, this is how you build teams in the NFL.  You either way insane money for 1 or 2 starters, and pray they'll make the impact that is needed, or you get guys who have been developing at a better value. They can argue that it's more m9ney than they're worth all they want to, but that is the landscape of free agency in the NFL - which most people fail to grasp.  None of the contracts on new players are going to hurt our team short or long term.   

It is going to be interesting to see how these guys come together. Dan Morgan definitely has a plan in place and is executing it. 

[Icege]

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

I didn't agree with they guys in the video.  Which is no surprise to myself. 

No 1 player is going to change the outlook of any team, especially one as bad as ours is 9n defense. 

While I understand their perspective on the fact that we got guys who weren't starters on their other teams, this is how you build teams in the NFL.  You either way insane money for 1 or 2 starters, and pray they'll make the impact that is needed, or you get guys who have been developing at a better value. They can argue that it's more m9ney than they're worth all they want to, but that is the landscape of free agency in the NFL - which most people fail to grasp.  None of the contracts on new players are going to hurt our team short or long term.   

It is going to be interesting to see how these guys come together. Dan Morgan definitely has a plan in place and is executing it. 

Yea... hard for me to take these guys seriously. The extent of their prep is just eyeballing a stat sheet and then criticizing based off of whatever ranking system they want to use in the moment.

Calling Wharton the fifth best DL on the Chiefs when he led the team in sacks last season and was the starting DT next to Chris Jones shows how little prep they put in. Bobby Brown III was the starting NT for the Rams. Yea, there is likely an overpay if we look just at the possible total value of the contracts given out but once we get the details we'll have a better idea of what to expect.

Take Brown III, for example, who at first glance signed a 3yr/$21M. Most folks will do the quick maths and come away with one of two responses: a) "We're paying somebody else's back-up $21M" OR b) "We're paying another team's rotational guy $7M a year." However, looking at the details of the contract below, we see a few things:

• Brown III's cap hit for 2025 is just $3M.
• The hit jumps to $8M for 2026.
• His dead cap for 2026 is only $2.8M, so cutting him saves $5M.
• And then jumps again to $10M for 2027.
• His dead cap for 2027 is only $1.8M, so cutting him saves $8M.

The only way Brown gets the full amount of the contract is if he plays the entirety of it, but as fans we are also aware that the only way he's seeing year three of that deal is if he's balling out. More than likely, he plays just the first two years of the deal which ends up being a 2yr/$13M (including the 2027 dead cap) for an average salary of $6.5M... which again, he's only getting paid $3M this upcoming season.

Brown III's contract has me looking at this year as a tryout for him to see the rest of the deal. If he puts together two solid seasons, he'll see year three. The $6.5M/yr average that the numbers worked out to make Brown III's average salary the same as Shy Tuttle's (39th highest avg salary). Both NTs having such low numbers tell me that the Panthers are keeping their eyes peeled in the draft for the position group still.

Once we get the details of Trevon Moehrig, Patrick Jones II, and Tershawn Wharton's deals we'll have a better idea of what the team has in mind for them. Wharton seemed to be the biggest signing of the linemen based on the reactions from fanbases that we signed guys away from as many in KC were complimentary of him. Everybody also said they wouldn't have paid as much for any of the FAs brought in, but that's the curse of a team trying to change its culture. Wharton's average salary ties him for 17th highest avg salary for DTs, but those contract details might tell a different story.

Edited 3 hours ago by Icege

[Icege]

8 minutes ago, Icege said:

Yea... hard for me to take these guys seriously. The extent of their prep is just eyeballing a stat sheet and then criticizing based off of whatever ranking system they want to use in the moment.

Calling Wharton the fifth best DL on the Chiefs when he led the team in sacks last season and was the starting DT next to Chris Jones shows how little prep they put in. Bobby Brown III was the starting NT for the Rams. Yea, there is likely an overpay if we look just at the possible total value of the contracts given out but once we get the details we'll have a better idea of what to expect.

Take Brown III, for example, who at first glance signed a 3yr/$21M. Most folks will do the quick maths and come away with one of two responses: a) "We're paying somebody else's back-up $21M" OR b) "We're paying another team's rotational guy $7M a year." However, looking at the details of the contract below, we see a few things:

• Brown III's cap hit for 2025 is just $3M.
• The hit jumps to $8M for 2026.
• His dead cap for 2026 is only $2.8M, so cutting him saves $5M.
• And then jumps again to $10M for 2027.
• His dead cap for 2027 is only $1.8M, so cutting him saves $8M.

The only way Brown gets the full amount of the contract is if he plays the entirety of it, but as fans we are also aware that the only way he's seeing year three of that deal is if he's balling out. More than likely, he plays just the first two years of the deal which ends up being a 2yr/$13M (including the 2027 dead cap) for an average salary of $6.5M... which again, he's only getting paid $3M this upcoming season.

Brown III's contract has me looking at this year as a tryout for him to see the rest of the deal. If he puts together two solid seasons, he'll see year three. The $6.5M/yr average that the numbers worked out to make Brown III's average salary the same as Shy Tuttle's (39th highest avg salary). Both NTs having such low numbers tell me that the Panthers are keeping their eyes peeled in the draft for the position group still.

Once we get the details of Trevon Moehrig, Patrick Jones II, and Tershawn Wharton's deals we'll have a better idea of what the team has in mind for them. Wharton seemed to be the biggest signing of the linemen based on the reactions from fanbases that we signed guys away from as many in KC were complimentary of him. Everybody also said they wouldn't have paid as much for any of the FAs brought in, but that's the curse of a team trying to change its culture. Wharton's average salary ties him for 17th highest avg salary for DTs, but those contract details might tell a different story.

To further my point, that all came together over the course of 20min by just opening a couple of extra tabs to look up and/or verify information. These chucklefugs couldn't even do that.

Edited 3 hours ago by Icege

[kungfoodude]

I mean, I agree that we basically took a larger pool of money and got POTENTIALLY basically three averagish rotational guys for a bigger chunk of money. That's not great bang for the buck.....MAYBE. Conversely, if Williams ends up being just an average player, did we get any better and how do you pivot and unload that whale of a contract?

I think in general either side of this coin has some financial malfeasance. With Williams you are giving out the Horn contract again. A player that has high potential but has really done very little to deserve being one of the highest paid players at the position. And a rotational guy on an amazing line, to boot. 

With Brown, Wharton and Jones you have at least one massively overpaid and substantially worse contract than even Williams with the Wharton deal. Another rotational guy but without anywhere near the perceived upside nor even the true body of work. 

All that being said, we have aggravating factors that actively work against us. I have no doubt we are one of the bottom 5 destinations for free agents if you DON'T overpay. Additionally, we are so insanely bad on that front 7 that all these backup caliber/rotational guys are likely to play significantly more snaps here because of how poorly this roster is constructed. So maybe this slight upgrade overall is actually worth more in terms of quality of the defense?

[Jay Roosevelt]

I'd probably have also paid Williams what he wanted, but I'm also not sure I agree with their take on the players we did get. Wharton is a good player, so is Bobby Brown. Not as crazy about Patrick Jones at that price, but it's a different position. I think we would have signed Brown regardless because he's a NT whereas Williams is a pass rusher. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

I'd probably have also paid Williams what he wanted, but I'm also not sure I agree with their take on the players we did get. Wharton is a good player, so is Bobby Brown. Not as crazy about Patrick Jones at that price, but it's a different position. I think we would have signed Brown regardless because he's a NT whereas Williams is a pass rusher. 

Well you just have to get a guy like Brown in this defense. We need a space eater/run stopper at NT. We haven't had that and it showed. I agree Brown was likely to happen with or without Williams. 

My issue with Wharton is that he has even less flexibility than Jones. He is a pass rush specialist only. So keeping him on the field for three downs makes our defense worse against the run, which is not desirable at all.

[Zaximus]

Man this defense was so comically bad last year that even if Milton Williams ends up being THAT guy, we had a TON of holes to fill.  I would have loved Milton but I'm ok with what we did.  Considering that if we had even a mid-tier defense last year we would be have been sniffing playoffs in this division. 

[kungfoodude]

24 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

Man this defense was so comically bad last year that even if Milton Williams ends up being THAT guy, we had a TON of holes to fill.  I would have loved Milton but I'm ok with what we did.  Considering that if we had even a mid-tier defense last year we would be have been sniffing playoffs in this division. 

Yeah, I am okay with just regular bad as an upgrade to comically/historically bad. Show some progression, at least.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

To further my point, that all came together over the course of 20min by just opening a couple of extra tabs to look up and/or verify information. These chucklefugs couldn't even do that.

I learned a new word today.  If you expand your vocabulary by one word every day, you'd be a wordy...languagistician?.....vocabularian?....a person who knows more words than before.

Edited 2 hours ago by MHS831

[*FreeFua*]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Yea... hard for me to take these guys seriously. The extent of their prep is just eyeballing a stat sheet and then criticizing based off of whatever ranking system they want to use in the moment.

Calling Wharton the fifth best DL on the Chiefs when he led the team in sacks last season and was the starting DT next to Chris Jones shows how little prep they put in. Bobby Brown III was the starting NT for the Rams. Yea, there is likely an overpay if we look just at the possible total value of the contracts given out but once we get the details we'll have a better idea of what to expect.

Take Brown III, for example, who at first glance signed a 3yr/$21M. Most folks will do the quick maths and come away with one of two responses: a) "We're paying somebody else's back-up $21M" OR b) "We're paying another team's rotational guy $7M a year." However, looking at the details of the contract below, we see a few things:

• Brown III's cap hit for 2025 is just $3M.
• The hit jumps to $8M for 2026.
• His dead cap for 2026 is only $2.8M, so cutting him saves $5M.
• And then jumps again to $10M for 2027.
• His dead cap for 2027 is only $1.8M, so cutting him saves $8M.

The only way Brown gets the full amount of the contract is if he plays the entirety of it, but as fans we are also aware that the only way he's seeing year three of that deal is if he's balling out. More than likely, he plays just the first two years of the deal which ends up being a 2yr/$13M (including the 2027 dead cap) for an average salary of $6.5M... which again, he's only getting paid $3M this upcoming season.

Brown III's contract has me looking at this year as a tryout for him to see the rest of the deal. If he puts together two solid seasons, he'll see year three. The $6.5M/yr average that the numbers worked out to make Brown III's average salary the same as Shy Tuttle's (39th highest avg salary). Both NTs having such low numbers tell me that the Panthers are keeping their eyes peeled in the draft for the position group still.

Once we get the details of Trevon Moehrig, Patrick Jones II, and Tershawn Wharton's deals we'll have a better idea of what the team has in mind for them. Wharton seemed to be the biggest signing of the linemen based on the reactions from fanbases that we signed guys away from as many in KC were complimentary of him. Everybody also said they wouldn't have paid as much for any of the FAs brought in, but that's the curse of a team trying to change its culture. Wharton's average salary ties him for 17th highest avg salary for DTs, but those contract details might tell a different story.

https://overthecap.com/player/tershawn-wharton/9070
 

 

@mrcompletely11

Edited 2 hours ago by *FreeFua*