After Day three.... New draft strategy?

[Murph]

I’m going with Nick Emmanwori as the pick right now. Charlie Campbell has him ranked 5th on his post combine big board and another safety is needed.

[panthers55]

19 hours ago, Hoenheim said:

I would argue the Legette, Mingo, DJ Johnson picks were drafting for need vs BPA .

I really think Morgan and Canales fumbled hard in their first draft. Could've had something like McConkey and Fiske vs Legette and Brooks which is criminal. 

Draft last year was mid with legette ,JT Sanders,  Wallace, and CS Wade being decent but nothing great thus far anyway. The Brooks injury really pulled this draft down from maybe a B to a C . Now we're banking on Legette making an exponential leap coming off foot surgery in year 2 to make this class redeemable. 

I thought the general rule is don't judge for a minimum of 3 years.  Go back to 2001 which folks suggest might have been our best draft and tell me whether Smith, Morgan and Jenkins were great their rookie season. By season 3 they helped lead us to the super bowl. 

[rebelrouser]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I thought the general rule is don't judge for a minimum of 3 years.

Thanks Dan. Why did we bail on Mingo if this is true?

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

Thanks Dan. Why did we bail on Mingo if this is true?

He isn't the only one we bailed on before 3 years. The three years maxim is about the time it takes to transition to the NFL and learn the position at a much higher level. On the other hand if unforeseen things arise like being a cancer to the team or lacking motivation occur you don't need 3 years to cut your losses. Legette is going to be a stud if he can learn to hold onto the ball. Maybe he should have to wear one taped to his hand for 24 hours after every game he drops one until he figures it out.

[bga71]

If the DTs on the roster can get pressure up the middle, with the current edge rushers on the team, the D line may be a lot better than people think.  I'm thinking BPA first round.

[CRA]

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I thought the general rule is don't judge for a minimum of 3 years.  Go back to 2001 which folks suggest might have been our best draft and tell me whether Smith, Morgan and Jenkins were great their rookie season. By season 3 they helped lead us to the super bowl. 

89 and Morgan both made the PFWA all rookie team.  89's first touch went to the house and added a Pro Bowl.  I mean, it was evident they were NFL dudes out of the gate.  How great they would be? Well, no one ever knows that.  

I think it depends on the position and era.  I think it is pretty fair to start judging offensive skill position pretty dang early given the way the game is now played vs years ago.  Specifically WR, RB and even QB.  It's really a more simplistic game today and heavy college influenced.  I think you really should look promising pretty early pending there aren't unusual circumstance (like an abnormally bad staff/situation, depth keeping you off the field, etc).  I give OL and DL more time to show their stuff.  I mean, if you draft a WR in round 1, you play him and give him opportunity, and your O doesn't complete suck do to the QB.....he should look like a good pick out of the gate pretty IMO in today's NFL. 

 

[kungfoodude]

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

He isn't the only one we bailed on before 3 years. The three years maxim is about the time it takes to transition to the NFL and learn the position at a much higher level. On the other hand if unforeseen things arise like being a cancer to the team or lacking motivation occur you don't need 3 years to cut your losses. Legette is going to be a stud if he can learn to hold onto the ball. Maybe he should have to wear one taped to his hand for 24 hours after every game he drops one until he figures it out.

The part that keeps being infuriating about most of our whiffs is they are immediately apparent. It's rarely a "well maybe they will adjust and development" scenario. It's started a turd, ended a turd.

That seems to be the Panthers draft strategy in the Tepper era. Just keep accumulating turds and watering them in the hopes they will eventually start sprouting flowers.

[panthers55]

23 hours ago, CRA said:

89 and Morgan both made the PFWA all rookie team.  89's first touch went to the house and added a Pro Bowl.  I mean, it was evident they were NFL dudes out of the gate.  How great they would be? Well, no one ever knows that.  

I think it depends on the position and era.  I think it is pretty fair to start judging offensive skill position pretty dang early given the way the game is now played vs years ago.  Specifically WR, RB and even QB.  It's really a more simplistic game today and heavy college influenced.  I think you really should look promising pretty early pending there aren't unusual circumstance (like an abnormally bad staff/situation, depth keeping you off the field, etc).  I give OL and DL more time to show their stuff.  I mean, if you draft a WR in round 1, you play him and give him opportunity, and your O doesn't complete suck do to the QB.....he should look like a good pick out of the gate pretty IMO in today's NFL. 

 

Smith was a part time receiver and punt returner. He had 3 TDs and 154 yards. Other than his first return he didn't score again as a punt returner. That is not great or that profiting of success. And as far as Morgan goes he didn't have the rookie season that Kuechly had but of the three he's hoped the most promise. So no it took time for them like most rookies to show their true potential.

[panthers55]

23 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

The part that keeps being infuriating about most of our whiffs is they are immediately apparent. It's rarely a "well maybe they will adjust and development" scenario. It's started a turd, ended a turd.

That seems to be the Panthers draft strategy in the Tepper era. Just keep accumulating turds and watering them in the hopes they will eventually start sprouting flowers.

Is Legette a turd? What about Bryce? With the yearly turnover in coaches and systems it would be hard for any player to excel. Hopefully with stability we can actually develop our players  and let them grow into their roles. 

Edited 8 hours ago by panthers55

[jfra78]

15 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Smith was a part time receiver and punt returner. He had 3 TDs and 154 yards. Other than his first return he didn't score again as a punt returner. That is not great or that profiting of success. And as far as Morgan goes he didn't have the rookie season that Kuechly had but of the three he's hoped the most promise. So no it took time for them like most rookies to show their true potential.

He also had 2 KR for TD

[Pejorative Miscreant]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Is Legette a turd? What about Bryce? With the yearly turnover in coaches and systems it would be hard for any player to excel. Hopefully with stability we can actually develop our players  and let them grow into their roles. 

I think we saw enough evidence from Bryce to say that development is happening. Not sure of ceiling but time will tell.  Legette showed he can play but needs work and refinement. I hope they both make jumps. 
 

I think many others such as Mingo fall into the category as not panning out and probably fall into the “turd” category. 

[mrcompletely11]

11 minutes ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

I think we saw enough evidence from Bryce to say that development is happening. Not sure of ceiling but time will tell.  Legette showed he can play but needs work and refinement. I hope they both make jumps. 
 

I think many others such as Mingo fall into the category as not panning out and probably fall into the “turd” category. 

as to the "work and refinement" part, sure it could happen but the dude is 24, played 5 years in college and only had one that was good.  He never broke 170 yards the four years prior.  How this wasnt a warning sign I will never know but hey he did interview well and the owners wife likes so there is that

[Tbe]

This team desperately needs a #1 WR, but I don’t see a guy worth the #8 pick.

We just need to go BPA and build the right way.

[CRA]

7 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Smith was a part time receiver and punt returner. He had 3 TDs and 154 yards. Other than his first return he didn't score again as a punt returner. That is not great or that profiting of success. And as far as Morgan goes he didn't have the rookie season that Kuechly had but of the three he's hoped the most promise. So no it took time for them like most rookies to show their true potential.

89 was #2 in return yardage and lead the NFL in return scores with 2.  arguably best in the league his rookie season hence the Pro Bowl/all rookie team.   His coach just didn’t give him WR opportunity. You got to have that.  

and a comparison to Luke (an all time GOAT) has nothing to do with Morgan proving he was legit NFL dude as a rookie.   Morgan made the all rookie team and no one was debating at the end of the year if we made the right decision.  

Agree to disagree about it should take time to simply show you are a legit pick and NFL player.  If you get legit opportunity…..like say a Mingo…you can start judging them pretty quick.  They should be showing they were good picks in windows and waves early in today’s NFL.   Specifically at the skill spots.  Line play is about the only spot I’ll ignore a bad rookie season.  QB too pending the circumstances.