Per Yasinskas: Quarterback Competition?

[bleys]

I love how this topic gets so many panties twisted. They are both average at best at this point. It will take many more snaps before we know eho should play or not and in the meantime they will err on the side of the elder which is exactly what should be done.

This topic is getting so ridiculous people in this thread are no longer leaning on one game to predict the future but on a single play... Panther Fanz crack me up.

agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed........

and I wouldn't use Brett Favre as an example to say "when Favre throws it in double coverage" he gets called great.. there are a few that are game winners, and there are a few that are game losers... (Playoffs?!)

[panthers55]

Well, I just watched the replay again on NFL.com, exact time is 1:30 on the replay if you wanna check it, pass was NOT tipped by the defender from what I can see in that replay! I am 35 and my sight is not what it used to be for sure so...

Also, the pass that was intercepted..to high? And to the inside? Ball was caught waist high by the defender and right on the sideline...if it were inside it would have hit the falling receiver in the head!

Edit: P55, you were right, ball was a little high, definelty above the waste but still wasn't inside. It's in that same highlight, I keep watching it over and over to see if I can see the defender tipping that pass

And I just use Brett but there are several QB's that do that...the panthers have been eatten up by the play over the years, roll out and throw across the grain...its nothing new!

I'm just extremely bored at work today so this helps pass the time, have to talk about something...why not this?

Look at my post, the ball was caught by the defender inside the sideline. If the ball had been thrown more outside and lower it would have been a diving catch for the receiver or an incomplete pass not intercepted. Exactly where it should have been thrown. You don't get YAC on out routes and because you always run the risk of a receiver falling down and a defender taking it for a pick 6 you throw the ball as much so it can't be picked off as you do to your guy.

Pay attention and you find out when it comes to football I am right a lot more than I am wrong.

[The Saltman]

:leaving:

[HPPantherzfan]

Look at my post, the ball was caught by the defender inside the sideline. If the ball had been thrown more outside and lower it would have been a diving catch for the receiver or an incomplete pass not intercepted. Exactly where it should have been thrown. You don't get YAC on out routes and because you always run the risk of a receiver falling down and a defender taking it for a pick 6 you throw the ball as much so it can't be picked off as you do to your guy.

Pay attention and you find out when it comes to football I am right a lot more than I am wrong.

Ok, point taken! Still not sure about the tip ball by the defender though, even Scott Fowler (http://scottfowlerobs.blogspot.com/) makes it sound like Moore tipped it to himself and thats what it looks like to me in all the replays I can find. It really doesn't matter though, everyone knows the job is Matt Moores as it should be. Some of us are just excited about what the future holds seeing as how, at least I believe, Matt will not be here after this year!

Edit: guess I should quote the part of the blog I'm referencing...

His best play: a 25-yard rocket over the middle to Kenny Moore, who was in tight coverage but caught the ball after tipping it. Clausen also showed a little mobility and executed a couple of screen passes well before finally throwing the ball too far outside for Moore on third down when under a heavy blitz.

Its at the bottom of the blog

[smash_n_dash]

1. Why would Moore be too expensive for us to keep if we did make a deep playoff run? We were willing to dish out 8+ million to Delhomme, I doubt Moore would require near that amount. We don't know what the CBA will do for salary caps and things of that nature so most likely we would be able to afford him.

2. The LOGICAL thing to do THIS year would be to start the QB that hurts your team the LEAST. Take last year for instance. Delhomme tanked a few games, something we will all agree on. If Delhomme hadn't started in those games and a more competent QB was in place that didn't turn the ball over every other drive, we would have at least a chance at winning those games. Similar thing this year. Clausen has great upside... but he also has great downside. Just because he looks good at times doesn't mean he won't make big mistakes either. With Moore, I see a guy that will make the accurate pass or accurate read and although he might not make the daring pass or dangerous scramble, he also won't turnover the ball as much. Clausen will minimize mistakes, but it takes time, time that Moore has already had.

3. Why can't we make a playoff/SB run? We have loads of talent and a cupcake schedule. All it takes is 10+ wins and you're almost guaranteed a wildcard slot. Split with division rivals, something we do every year, win half the games against the NFCW and AFCN and then win against CHI and NYG and thats 9 wins. All it takes is ball security.

[CarolinaPanic]

well whoever gets the spot, they earned it no doubt. Clausen isnt going to take the wheel unless Fox thinks hes ready, and if Fox thinks hes ready he sure as hell earned it. Unless of course Moore is throwing picks left and right and Clausen gets the spot because there is nothing left to lose... a la last year

[SmootsDaddy89]

I wish they'd play Matt and Jimmy both with the ones in the third game.

They've done it before haven't they? I wanna say it was Jake's first year here, but I can't remember.

But if Jimmy outperforms Moore again, it's just going to make matters worse.

[personal_foul]

The ball to K. Moore was not a missed interception. HPPANTHERZFAN is correct...the defender cut underneath but couldn't quite get there...Moore stayed focused and finished the play nicely.

The out route INT is hardly debatable. The pass could have been toward the sideline a little more, however it was a good throw. The route was ran poorly and the WR didn't create any separation. Hard to pin that on Clausen. He made the correct read and found the guy in single coverage. In those situations, you have to trust your WR to make the play or you'll never get rid of the ball in the NFL.

As for everyone saying Moore has been the best in camp so far, I'd say I'd hope so considering Clausen just finished his 1st week of an NFL training camp. It's a long way to go, but I hope the coaches have a more open mind than some on this board when it comes to selecting a starter. Who knows what things will look like in a month. Competition is a good thing. Although sometimes necessary, having rookie QBs sit and be "groomed" is overated IMO. Guys like Rivers and Rodgers sat and were groomed, but I think that is a more fancy way of saying they weren't nearly as good as Brees and Farve when they were rookies. Stafford, Flacco, Sanchez, Ryan, and Freeman are all examples in the last 3 years of rookie QBs who came in and played respectably.

[Woodie]

Well, count me among those that thinks ideally Clausen sits and develops this year. And since we have a QB that has shown himself to be at least a decent game manager, I can't see any reason for it not to play out this way (barring injury, or serious Moore regression). And in the preseason game, I didn't see Moore do anything that warrants turning this into a QB competition.

So, with that said, after reading this thread I decided to re-watch the three key plays in dispute with Clausen. I watched each in slow motion.

- First, on the throw against the grain, it was actually a good play by Clausen. On the play: - #63 was chasing Clausen as he rolled to the right out of the pocket. - #50 turned to cover the flat against a run/pass. - #96 had a knee on the ground when the ball was thrown. - #91 was behind Vaughn and not a threat to intercept the ball. No other defenders were in the vacinity. In fact, the only traffic Clausen threw into were Panthers.

- On the pass to Moore: - The ball was thrown high and away from the defender. - The picture in slow motion was not clear enough to tell if the defender tipped the ball, but what was clear is that he was fully extended, and if he did deflect it, it was only with the end of his finger tip. - The defender actually reached out with his right hand while his left was on Moore's hip, so he could have only tipped it with his right hand (although it looked like Moore was the main one to cause the tip). - Nobody else was in the area, so there was little to no chance for that pass to be intercepted.

- On the interception: - It was single coverage. - The ball was thrown about shoulder height (for whatever reason, DB jumped unnecessarily). - The receiver was cutting in front of the defender when he fell. - So at worst it would have been incomplete, but probably a completed pass if the receiver didn't slip.

So, after reviewing the plays, there's nothing to really knock Clausen over on any of them. But even so, that doesn't mean he should suddenly jump into a competition with Moore. Both played well (but both also made their fair share of mistakes, it is preseason after all), and at this time, there is no reason to change things up at all.

[Varking]

Well, count me among those that thinks ideally Clausen sits and develops this year. And since we have a QB that has shown himself to be at least a decent game manager, I can't see any reason for it not to play out this way (barring injury, or serious Moore regression). And in the preseason game, I didn't see Moore do anything that warrants turning this into a QB competition.

So, with that said, after reading this thread I decided to re-watch the three key plays in dispute with Clausen. I watched each in slow motion.

- First, on the throw against the grain, it was actually a good play by Clausen. On the play: - #63 was chasing Clausen as he rolled to the right out of the pocket. - #50 turned to cover the flat against a run/pass. - #96 had a knee on the ground when the ball was thrown. - #91 was behind Vaughn and not a threat to intercept the ball. No other defenders were in the vacinity. In fact, the only traffic Clausen threw into were Panthers.

- On the pass to Moore: - The ball was thrown high and away from the defender. - The picture in slow motion was not clear enough to tell if the defender tipped the ball, but what was clear is that he was fully extended, and if he did deflect it, it was only with the end of his finger tip. - The defender actually reached out with his right hand while his left was on Moore's hip, so he could have only tipped it with his right hand (although it looked like Moore was the main one to cause the tip). - Nobody else was in the area, so there was little to no chance for that pass to be intercepted.

- On the interception: - It was single coverage. - The ball was thrown about shoulder height (for whatever reason, DB jumped unnecessarily). - The receiver was cutting in front of the defender when he fell. - So at worst it would have been incomplete, but probably a completed pass if the receiver didn't slip.

So, after reviewing the plays, there's nothing to really knock Clausen over on any of them. But even so, that doesn't mean he should suddenly jump into a competition with Moore. Both played well (but both also made their fair share of mistakes, it is preseason after all), and at this time, there is no reason to change things up at all.

Just wanted to say thanks for putting it how you did. You share the same opinion of me. It would benefit him to sit, but I like competition. And you seemed to have the same views on the plays from the preseason game that I did. Hopefully this will put a rest to some of these misconceptions.

[panthers55]

The ball to K. Moore was not a missed interception. HPPANTHERZFAN is correct...the defender cut underneath but couldn't quite get there...Moore stayed focused and finished the play nicely.

The out route INT is hardly debatable. The pass could have been toward the sideline a little more, however it was a good throw. The route was ran poorly and the WR didn't create any separation. Hard to pin that on Clausen. He made the correct read and found the guy in single coverage. In those situations, you have to trust your WR to make the play or you'll never get rid of the ball in the NFL.

As for everyone saying Moore has been the best in camp so far, I'd say I'd hope so considering Clausen just finished his 1st week of an NFL training camp. It's a long way to go, but I hope the coaches have a more open mind than some on this board when it comes to selecting a starter. Who knows what things will look like in a month. Competition is a good thing. Although sometimes necessary, having rookie QBs sit and be "groomed" is overated IMO. Guys like Rivers and Rodgers sat and were groomed, but I think that is a more fancy way of saying they weren't nearly as good as Brees and Farve when they were rookies. Stafford, Flacco, Sanchez, Ryan, and Freeman are all examples in the last 3 years of rookie QBs who came in and played respectably.

Rookie stats

Stafford completed 53% of passes and passer rating of 61

Sanchez completed 53% of his passes and had a passer rating of 63

Freeman completed 54 % of his passes and had a passer rating of 59

Flacco completed 60% of his passes and had a passer rating of 80

Ryan completed 61 of his passes and had a passer rating of 87.

So contrary to popular belief, of the ones you noted only 2 of the 5 players had a respectable rookie campaign.

Now compare them to Moore's 8 games:

He completed 59% of his passes and a passer rating of 85.

Your argument actually reinforces the notion that you would only start a rookie if you had to. Most of the guys you mentioned were pretty poor.

[Mr. Scot]

Even if Yas is pulling this out of his ass, he's still probably right.

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a story outta my ass!"

"Again?!"

I wish they'd play Matt and Jimmy both with the ones in the third game.

They've done it before haven't they? I wanna say it was Jake's first year here, but I can't remember.

But if Jimmy outperforms Moore again, it's just going to make matters worse.

Peete was hurt. Not really the same situation.

As I recall, McCown got some time with the 1s in a game or two at times when the team didn't feel like they needed to see anything more from Jake. Granted that Moore isn't as established as Jake, but given the precedent, even if Clausen does get starter time I wouldn't read much into it.

...

[ed bell]

At this point I'm just glad our projected starter doesn't have a 3 inch gash/12 stitches across his forehead with a month to go until the regular season.

[personal_foul]

Rookie stats

Stafford completed 53% of passes and passer rating of 61

Sanchez completed 53% of his passes and had a passer rating of 63

Freeman completed 54 % of his passes and had a passer rating of 59

Flacco completed 60% of his passes and had a passer rating of 80

Ryan completed 61 of his passes and had a passer rating of 87.

So contrary to popular belief, of the ones you noted only 2 of the 5 players had a respectable rookie campaign.

Now compare them to Moore's 8 games:

He completed 59% of his passes and a passer rating of 85.

Your argument actually reinforces the notion that you would only start a rookie if you had to. Most of the guys you mentioned were pretty poor.

Give me a break! Stats don't tell the whole story...Sanchez led his team to the AFC champ game, that's a respectable rookie season regardless of his stats. Stafford and Freeman both look to be the future of their franchises, both showed positive glimpses on pathetic teams in their rookie years and will be better off this year.

And for the record, I'm not saying Clausen should start...I'm simply saying the best QB on the roster should start regardless of # of years in the league