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Defensive Tackle Review

Retemnav

By Retemnav,
in Carolina Panthers

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Retemnav Newbie

Retemnav

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One of the most important questions for the 2010 Panthers is whether a NFL starting caliber DT rotation can be fused together out of the numerous imports that were regarded as "discards" from their former teams. Starting tonight, we'll get a look at these new parts working together for the first time in a game-like situtation, so I thought I would take a look back over who exactly we're expecting to step up and produce.

Ed Johnson – 3 years and a few run-ins with marijuana removed from the undrafted rookie season that saw him start and play well for the Indianapolis Colts, Ed has impressed in camp and will likely get his chance to start in this first preseason game. He’s shown that he can be effective in this defense, playing the same position under the same coordinator on the Colts as he’ll be asked to play here. The question will be whether he’s matured enough to stay out of trouble for an entire season and if his conditioning will hold up enough for him to be effective in the 4th quarter of games.

Before I talk about the next two guys, a little history: Since the Patriots won 3 Super Bowls with a 3-4 defense and because the Steelers and Ravens have fielded strong defenses with 3-4 packages, you’ve seen more and more teams in the NFL adopt the 3-4 as their base package. This year, 15 of the 32 NFL teams will be running the 3-4 or a variety thereof (for example, the 5-2 in Arizona).

One of the reasons that teams like the Patriots, Steelers and Ravens have had such success with the 3-4 is that they were competing for talent within a much smaller pool of teams. The qualities that make a successful NT, 3-4 end and outside linebacker are not the same qualities that make a good 4-3 DT or end. There are the outstanding athletes that can transcend the system, but for the much larger pool of “average” to “above-average” players, they are either a best fit for the 3-4 or the 4-3, but not both. A good 4-3 DT is likely to be too small to play as a true NT in a 3-4, and yet a little too large and slow to handle playing as a 3-4 end.

The shift among NFL teams to a nearly 50% split between the two defenses means that there are now that many fewer teams competing for the competent NFL 4-3 DTs, and points towards the conclusion that the Panthers have probably gotten good value with the misplaced DTs they picked up from teams switching to the 3-4, Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler. Their ceiling is “good” and they are unlikely to be anything more than “average” players, but as long as you have a few above-average players, a bunch of average players are all you need as complementary pieces. What needs to be avoided are the overmatched players, perhaps making it on “heart” and work-ethic, but simply without the athletic skills to be more than a below-average replacement; in other words the Nick Hayden’s of the world. Rudy may have had more heart than anyone in the world, but he still only got to play one series at the end of a game that was over, which is exactly when Nick Hayden should be seeing the field.

Louis Leonard – He was the second team LDE in the Cleveland Browns 3-4, but he also rotated in to the NT at times, a classic example of his ‘tweener’ status in the 3-4. In an extremely small sample size of one game, he looked average to slightly above-average in the 4-3 with the Panther’s. A criticism of him in Cleveland was that he tended to play too high and get pushed back off the snap, so that’s something to keep an eye on in tonight’s game.

Tank Tyler – The 3rd round pick of the KC Chiefs in 2007, he won the starting job in 2008 and played in all 16 games. His tackles, stops and defeats were all above average that year, although good luck getting a Chiefs’ fan to agree with you after the team went 2-14. In 2009, the Chiefs switched to the 3-4 and Tyler was asked to man the NT position, where he quickly fell out of favor with the coaching staff because he didn’t fit the scheme. He’s got the chance to rotate back to his natural spot here, and will most likely work out as a decent starter or as a platoon player with Ed Johnson, helping to keep him fresh.

Corvey Irvin – Our very own 3rd round pick, who lost most of his rookie year to a knee injury, which is unfortunate since he was already looked at as a major developmental project. He only started his senior season at Georgia, and then only because of an injury to the man in front of him. Additionally, he was a junior college transfer. He may be an outlier, but statistically, JuCo transfers normally have significant to severe learning disabilities or limitations, which can be a severe handicap when trying to learn the complexities of an NFL playbook. Given the lack of noise coming out of training camp about his play, if he can stay healthy then his ceiling this year is probably as a situational player where he can use his athleticism without having to diagnose and react too much.

Nick Hayden – All the heart in the world can’t make a 290 pound subpar athlete into a viable starting DT.

Derek Landri – All signs point to Nick Hayden 2.0

So we have two guys (Ed and Tank) who have shown in the past that they are at least average starters in the 4-3, one guy who is probably better than his stats because of being in a 3-4 scheme that could not truly utilize him (Leonard), and a red-shirt rookie who’s athletic but has failed to move up the depth chart in camp, likely because he’s still too raw to be considered a reliable reserve.

With no injuries along the line, we’re in decent shape, although a veteran fourth guy to replace the likely platoon of Irvin/Hayden, relegating them to spot duty, would be ideal. A lot is riding on the starting DTs staying healthy and Ed Johnson rebounding to his 2007 form. If he cannot, then our rotation will face the problem of either over-playing two decent players, leading to higher injury risks and exhaustion late in games, or playing subpar defensive linemen who showed last year that they were not good for much other than tying up an offensive lineman for a few seconds.

With decent health, the defensive tackle rotation has a very good chance to be better than last years, leading to a slightly better run defense. Once camp cut downs begin, however, I would expect for the Panther’s to be active in grabbing DTs cut from some of those other 3-4 teams to try out. As the regular season approaches, another low draft pick or player trade is not out of the question, as an upgrade to the third or fourth DT spot could be an important one.

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spartan_pantherfan Newbie

spartan_pantherfan

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I may be mistaken here but...

I remember reading ( mainly on this site, and I think once or twice on media website ) that, I think it was Landri, was looking pretty good at DT due to his ability to create a little pressure.

other then that though, good read and good info. I am going to be concentrating on Dline play all night, I think its the biggest ? we have right now and how are Dline plays is what going to make us either and 8-8 team or a 10-6 team.

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Retemnav Newbie

Retemnav

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I hope he is effective, but that seems like a hometeam fluff article for the most part. Other than the fact that he took a few snaps in practice with the first team, it mostly talks about his "execution" being good and the fact that he "works hard". And while the article talks about him not being a fit in the Jaguars 3-4 scheme, they actually ran the 4-3 for most of the time he was there and he never sniffed a starting spot.

He certainly does not have the type of positive history that Tyler or Johnson have. That doesn't rule him out of becoming a decent player, but 3 years of averaging one tackle per game is not a strong indicator of sudden success.

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