Joat's 8/2 TC updates- Live

[Baschski]

Um, I already gave reasoning. Godfrey still has lots of work to prove he can be where he needs to be in regards to coverage and working with the corner. That has been an area of concern that past 2 seasons. Overall, his coverage was not good last year when he played. Say what you want about his tackling late but his coverage was suspect. Marshall also hasn't shown he is legitmately a #2 corner yet and not simply a very good nickel corner. That isn't vague. If there isn't improvement there and you factor in a weaker pass rush that is a cause for concern.

Godfrey's "coverage issues" are massively overblown on this board. Regardless of whether you, sir, think that he was not "where he needs to be," he still started on one of the best pass defenses on the NFL and was not a liability. That, I think, makes him pretty good. And I am NOT simply talking about his tackling down the stretch. People who understand football and paid attention saw that his coverage improved as well.

Your point about Marshall is just absurd. Everyone on this board knows that Marshall is our #2 corner, but when we have three DB's on the field, he runs the Nickel spot while Munnerlyn covers outside. And that seemed to work out pretty damn well for us, didn't it? I don't see how it matters in any way whether Marshall is in the nickel spot or covering out wide. As long as the damn receivers are covered I don't care if it's Jeff Davidson playing the nickel and Sir Purr out wide.

I see absolutely no reason why there won't be improvement in our secondary with Godfrey coming into his own and Munnerlyn and Martin having another year to get comfortable with the system and not playing as wide-eyed rookies anymore.

[CRA]

Godfrey's "coverage issues" are massively overblown on this board. Regardless of whether you, sir, think that he was not "where he needs to be," he still started on one of the best pass defenses on the NFL and was not a liability. That, I think, makes him pretty good. And I am NOT simply talking about his tackling down the stretch. People who understand football and paid attention saw that his coverage improved as well.

Your point about Marshall is just absurd. Everyone on this board knows that Marshall is our #2 corner, but when we have three DB's on the field, he runs the Nickel spot while Munnerlyn covers outside. And that seemed to work out pretty damn well for us, didn't it? I don't see how it matters in any way whether Marshall is in the nickel spot or covering out wide. As long as the damn receivers are covered I don't care if it's Jeff Davidson playing the nickel and Sir Purr out wide.

I see absolutely no reason why there won't be improvement in our secondary with Godfrey coming into his own and Munnerlyn and Martin having another year to get comfortable with the system and not playing as wide-eyed rookies anymore.

bullcrap they are overblown. Godfrey's coverage overall has been downright poor the past 2 years. You can't pencil him yet as a proven guy that you know you will get good play from.

Martin is also unproven at SS.

They only proven person in the secondary is Gamble at there position.

If Marhsall is such a stud #2 corner why was there so much talk of Carolina not being that interested in keeping him? IMO, he looks better as a nickel guy than a #2 to date. If Captain can keep progressing I would not be surprised if he takes the job.

Put a bad pass rush in front of any group in the NFL and life is tough.

Like I said, they could be great as there is some real potential for good things. But with the pass rush up in the air and nothing to show yet how they will hold up it is too early to claim the secondary is gonna lock people down b/c of tweets from TC a couple days in.

[Dpantherman]

I just don't see how that works. If you're concerned about the D-line I don't see how you can feel like the secondary will still be able to maintain their current level of play.

The D-line wasn't dominate every game either. In fact the only time we were really doing well with the pass rush was also when Peppers was doing well. If Peppers is hot and cold then so is the d-line. We had over half our sacks in 4 games.

So now we have the inconsistent D-line without their best player. If all of our DE's improve in spades we'll be lucky to replace Peppers to remain inconsistent.

Im not concerned about the Dline. im on record saying that. what Im saying is I understand the reason to doubting the Dline. because our dline from last year has almost completely been replaced. the secondary for the most part remains the same, and they did well last year.

[Baschski]

bullcrap they are overblown. Godfrey's coverage overall has been downright poor the past 2 years. You can't pencil him yet as a proven guy that you know you will get good play from.

Martin is also unproven at SS.

They only proven person in the secondary is Gamble at there position.

If Marhsall is such a stud #2 corner why was there so much talk of Carolina not being that interested in keeping him? IMO, he looks better as a nickel guy than a #2 to date. If Captain can keep progressing I would not be surprised if he takes the job.

You're right, Godfrey sucked dick in coverage last year and that's why he gave up so many big plays in the air. Oh wait...that didn't happen. It seems that, as badly as Godfrey is at covering, he didn't give up many big plays at all. Opposing teams probably just decided to cut him a break and not target him, even though they knew he sucked so much, right?

I agree that Martin is uproven at SS but he has shown that he has the potential to be a great ballhawk and I think he will do just fine.

First of all, the "talk of Carolina not being interested in keeping Marshall" was 100% based on money. It is common knowledge that Marshall wanted a fat contract that wasn't in line with what he was worth. That does not mean he isn't good, it just means he isn't a top 10 corner. And, again, it really does not matter who is playing nickel and who isn't. Our top 3 CB's are strong, they did a hell of a job last year, and there is no reason to think they won't do just as well, if not better, this year.

[CRA]

You're right, Godfrey sucked dick in coverage last year and that's why he gave up so many big plays in the air. Oh wait...that didn't happen. It seems that, as badly as Godfrey is at covering, he didn't give up many big plays at all. Opposing teams probably just decided to cut him a break and not target him, even though they knew he sucked so much, right?

I agree that Martin is uproven at SS but he has shown that he has the potential to be a great ballhawk and I think he will do just fine.

First of all, the "talk of Carolina not being interested in keeping Marshall" was 100% based on money. It is common knowledge that Marshall wanted a fat contract that wasn't in line with what he was worth. That does not mean he isn't good, it just means he isn't a top 10 corner. And, again, it really does not matter who is playing nickel and who isn't. Our top 3 CB's are strong, they did a hell of a job last year, and there is no reason to think they won't do just as well, if not better, this year.

Godfrey sucked in coverage all of 08. He sucked in coverage prior to his injury in 09. He improved when he came back in 09. A 3-4 game window out of his career doesn't make him the the caliber player you can assume will shut people down b/c of tweets a couple days into camp. He is unproven.

Martin is unproven at SS.

W can agree to disagree on Marshall. I don't think he has proven he is that good as a #2 corner yet.

Regardless, put a weak pass rush in front of any NFL secondary and they will likely be in for a long year. Like I said, before I am buying what some are trying to sell....I need to see these guys actually play with this DL before I am buying anything. I don't get the logic of how they will be even better when the pass rush has potential to be weaker.

[Baschski]

Godfrey sucked in coverage all of 08. He sucked in coverage prior to his injury in 09. He improved when he came back in 09. A 3-4 game window out of his career doesn't make him the the caliber player you can assume will shut people down b/c of tweets a couple days into camp. He is unproven.

Martin is unproven at SS.

W can agree to disagree on Marshall. I don't think he has proven he is that good as a #2 corner yet.

Regardless, put a weak pass rush in front of any NFL secondary and they will likely be in for a long year. Like I said, before I am buying what some are trying to sell....I need to see these guys actually play with this DL before I am buying anything. I don't get the logic of how they will be even better when the pass rush has potential to be weaker.

Please explain to me why our pass defense was one of the best in the league last year with unproven amateurs like Godfrey and Marshall in starting roles?

And the pass rush argument is valid, but our pass rush was hardly impressive last year. Pep wreaking havoc three games out of the year does not mean we had a good pass rush. Overall, it was pretty poor. And the secondary itself should improve given that Munnerlyn and Martin are now 2nd year pros and not rookies and that Godfrey has started to break out. You're right, a worse pass rush means problems for the pass defense overall, but the secondary itself should be better. I think the pass rush will be about the same this season as last, it will just come from several different players stepping up to replace Peppers. All of this considered, our pass defense will be strong this year just like it was last year (when those sh*theads Godfrey and Marshall were starting).

[CRA]

Please explain to me why our pass defense was one of the best in the league last year with unproven amateurs like Godfrey and Marshall in starting roles?

And the pass rush argument is valid, but our pass rush was hardly impressive last year. Pep wreaking havoc three games out of the year does not mean we had a good pass rush. Overall, it was pretty poor. And the secondary itself should improve given that Munnerlyn and Martin are now 2nd year pros and not rookies and that Godfrey has started to break out. You're right, a worse pass rush means problems for the pass defense overall, but the secondary itself should be better. I think the pass rush will be about the same this season as last, it will just come from several different players stepping up to replace Peppers. All of this considered, our pass defense will be strong this year just like it was last year (when those sh*theads Godfrey and Marshall were starting).

How is it possible?

Week 1 - Eagles were held to 83 passing yards. Now that is an example that of a game that signficantly pads the stats of the pass defense.....yet in reality has nothing to do with the secondaries ability to cover. Carolina got stomped b/c of Jake and there was no need to pass. Huge bump for the pass rank which doesn't reflect ability.

Look at the last game of the year. 102 passing yards allowed. Another super low nice number to average in. All they did was play against backups as starters rested for playoffs.

I think there were 6 games in addition were they faced teams that ranked in the bottom half of the league in passing....which doesn't hurt.

Stats aren't the end all be all. They did well last year but if you want to continuously throw 4th ranking around.....there were more factors involved in it than just good play. Bad play at times also helped that number.....and Carolina played at extremes last year.

I agree the pass rush wasn't great last year. Peppers did tend to play very well aganist some of the top passing teams which were a big factor that Carolina won....AZ, Minny, NYG. Can this defensive secondary hold up against mulitple tough opponents without somone providing what Pep did those few games? Again, I fully agree the rush wasn't great last year.....that is my concern. It was Pep or nothing.

[Carolina Husker]

Otah doing conditioning drills can't tell he is injured

He's not injured. He's on the PUP list because he has a drinking problem.

[KatsAzz]

Another one of those who uses "realist" and "pessimist" as interchangable.

People mentioned how the back 7 has looked strong in camp...you immediately chime in with reasons to discount this and provide a negative view.

You have the right to be optimistic or pessimistic....just don't call yourself realist. Your view is no more "realistic" as somone who sees the silver lining rather than the dark cloud.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[carolinarolls]

Reading CRA's feeble attempts to discredit various players and hence various units of our team is becoming quite commonplace. Especially when the ignorant stabs at one unit invariably prove the ineptitude of another in spite of league rankings.

I wonder when we will all realize collectively that he is either in need of some extensive counseling sessions in conjunction with anti-depressants or a troll.

[VGcollector]

our pass rush is below average, our pass coverage is top 10

[CRA]

Reading CRA's feeble attempts to discredit various players and hence various units of our team is becoming quite commonplace. Especially when the ignorant stabs at one unit invariably prove the ineptitude of another in spite of league rankings.

I wonder when we will all realize collectively that he is either in need of some extensive counseling sessions in conjunction with anti-depressants or a troll.

I guess I could be a "smart" poster and just fling insults and name call when I disagree with others opinions.

Lame.

Only thing I have been trying to get across is it is too dang early for folks to be treating tweets this early into camp as evidence of what this 2010 team will do. People don't like that and want to paint me as a basher. Whatever man. I just try to look at both sides....and I want to wait until we see some football before I put myself on either side of that fence.

I realize my opinions my not always be popular but at least I attempt to be respectful. Insults and trying to put people down is something little kids do. I don't do that on message boards as I am an adult. Nothing I have posted is "trollish".

[Wither]

Only thing I have been trying to get across is it is too dang early for folks to be treating tweets this early into camp as evidence of what this 2010 team will do.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, my problem was that as the argument went on you pulled more and more away from this simple point and started moving into a deeper argument about the defense.

[CRA]

As I alluded to in my earlier post, my problem was that as the argument went on you pulled more and more away from this simple point and started moving into a deeper argument about the defense.

more and more others wanted to get into that. It is the NFL, things change quickly, I just think you gotta be able to look at both sides of how things can go at times.

I like the direction of this team in terms of players.