Joat's 8/2 TC updates- Live

[CRA]

It is also worth saying that we have two rookies at WR and no Rookie CBs at this point. Our CBs should be well ahead of the Rooks. At this point though I think Smith not being out there is a non factor. Its not like they will roll coverage or anything complex. I will be one on one. Smith more then likely will beat his man more time then not but it dose not make any of our other WRs better at this point.

my concern is you put Smith out there and the secondary simply gets to practice and get tested against a top tier WR. They will see plenty of those this year and are missing that. Smith can and does exppose things that other WRs on this roster simply can't do. Example, Godfrey still needs work on getting into the right spots and working with his corner. I just think the little things like that might be missed with Steve out b/c a Jarrett can't force the secondary to have to work to the same degree and can't expose the same type situations. Marshall can probably handle Jarrett fairly easily in coverage. Facing a bottom rung WR isn't going to show us that much in terms of where the secondary is at.

[CRA]

He's saying that it's neat that our secondary is looking good, but to temper it a little because:

1. They're Defense and typically ahead of the offense right now

2. They're not going against Smith and Kenny Moore on his best day isn't anywhere near Smith

3. They better be looking good against 2 rookie WRs (one a converted QB) and Jarrett.

The secondary IS hard to evaluate right now.

Thank you. That is all I am saying. They could be great as hopefully Martin and Godfrey can really come on strong. But it is near impossible to make the claims what we want to happen is coming true yet.

[Dpantherman]

Is this not the same secondary from last year?

[pantherclaw]

Maybe the WR's are young, but it sure sounds like Kenny Moore and Brandon LaFell are looking pretty darn good, and this is the best QB group that Fox has ever had, regardless of experience level.

Better than smith, moose. And proehl?

Talent is one thing, but producing is another.

[CRA]

Is this not the same secondary from last year?

The secondary last year was exposed in certain aspects despite where they statistically ranked. The biggest question mark for me is if no one can fill the void Pep leaves,regardless of what people think of him he was the only legitimate pass rush we were able to provide, how will that then effect them and there ability to cover over the course of a season. They showed last year that they can survive when Pep has his off day...but a season is another test. Depsite the talent there are still questions about both safties in some form. Also, I still think there are some unknowns about Marshall and Captain in terms of where they really fit best. Only thing this fan is certain about is Gamble.

[Wither]

He's saying that it's neat that our secondary is looking good, but to temper it a little because:

1. They're Defense and typically ahead of the offense right now

2. They're not going against Smith and Kenny Moore on his best day isn't anywhere near Smith

3. They better be looking good against 2 rookie WRs (one a converted QB) and Jarrett.

The secondary IS hard to evaluate right now.

Let's not forget this secondary is going up against rookie WRs and unproven WRs only. I think it could be very easy for them to look much better than they legitimately are.

So the secondary could be bad because they are going up against bad WR's.

I got it.

There was no reason to beat around the bush, just say it.

[Dpantherman]

the only reason I don't buy into that reasoning, is because Peppers was not dominate in every game. in fact there were times where I forgot he was playing. there were times where there was absolutely zero pass rush, but the QB had no where to throw, thats called really good coverage. a coverage sack would then follow. it wasn't all Pep and the pass rush, it wasn't all the secondary, but it was a nice balance. So im not going to say that I can't buy into a secondary, that was already good (and while being young) last year. If anything, I will expect even more out of them this year. I'll give a cause for concern on the D-line, but not the secondary

[Sloth]

So the secondary could be bad because they are going up against bad WR's.

Ah, sorry. I thought you were really asking for clarification.

Yes, absolutely right. All other WRs on roster are worthless, no-talent assclowns and our secondary totally blows but that's all being hidden by the empty void at WR where talent should be.

That is 100% what CRA was trying to say.

[Wither]

Ah, sorry. I thought you were really asking for clarification.

Yes, absolutely right. All other WRs on roster are worthless, no-talent assclowns and our secondary totally blows but that's all being hidden by the empty void at WR where talent should be.

That is 100% what CRA was trying to say.

I was. I want him to say what he really means. I want him to clarify his stance.

Being bad does not necessarily mean you are worthless or have no talent, just like having talent and potential does not mean you are good.

ETA: I am genuinely not trying to argue. I had no problems with CRA's original post and I agree people should be cautious in making any assumptions on the performance of any part of the team. However, I just felt as if he was dancing around what he originally said and this discussion went from a simple warning to a discussion about how the secondary hasn't proven anything, how the defense was bad in the run, etc. Just say you think the defense sucks.

[PantherExpress]

At the very least, we will know early on in the season how the DBs look for real, week 3 will now be a good test for our secondary.

[SorthNarolina]

the only reason I don't buy into that reasoning, is because Peppers was not dominate in every game. in fact there were times where I forgot he was playing. there were times where there was absolutely zero pass rush, but the QB had no where to throw, thats called really good coverage. a coverage sack would then follow. it wasn't all Pep and the pass rush, it wasn't all the secondary, but it was a nice balance. So im not going to say that I can't buy into a secondary, that was already good (and while being young) last year. If anything, I will expect even more out of them this year. I'll give a cause for concern on the D-line, but not the secondary

I just don't see how that works. If you're concerned about the D-line I don't see how you can feel like the secondary will still be able to maintain their current level of play.

The D-line wasn't dominate every game either. In fact the only time we were really doing well with the pass rush was also when Peppers was doing well. If Peppers is hot and cold then so is the d-line. We had over half our sacks in 4 games.

So now we have the inconsistent D-line without their best player. If all of our DE's improve in spades we'll be lucky to replace Peppers to remain inconsistent.

[Baschski]

The secondary last year was exposed in certain aspects despite where they statistically ranked. The biggest question mark for me is if no one can fill the void Pep leaves

This is ridiculous. You can't just make a completely vague claim like "The secondary last year was exposed" and provide absolutely no reasoning for it just so you can try to ignore the Top-10 ranking. It's as if you're trying to find ways to discredit our pass defense. Our secondary was f'ing top notch last season, that's a fact. The only difference in our secondary is that Martin is starting instead of Harris, and this will most likely IMPROVE our pass coverage.

And I just don't buy the point about Peppers. He was invisible half the season and we were still extremely tough to pass against. You could even argue that a large portion of our sacks, including Peppers', were made possible by tight pass coverage.

Yes, the back 7 is looking good in camp, as they should. But just because their competition isn't very tough right now does not, in any way, shape or form, mean that they won't look good against legit offenses just like they did on several occasions last season.

[beastson]

Norwood #92, havent heard not one thing about him. Another pass rusher we could have

Can anyone look out for him tomorrow

[CRA]

This is ridiculous. You can't just make a completely vague claim like "The secondary last year was exposed" and provide absolutely no reasoning for it just so you can try to ignore the Top-10 ranking. It's as if you're trying to find ways to discredit our pass defense. Our secondary was f'ing top notch last season, that's a fact. The only difference in our secondary is that Martin is starting instead of Harris, and this will most likely IMPROVE our pass coverage.

And I just don't buy the point about Peppers. He was invisible half the season and we were still extremely tough to pass against. You could even argue that a large portion of our sacks, including Peppers', were made possible by tight pass coverage.

Yes, the back 7 is looking good in camp, as they should. But just because their competition isn't very tough right now does not, in any way, shape or form, mean that they won't look good against legit offenses just like they did on several occasions last season.

Um, I already gave reasoning. Godfrey still has lots of work to prove he can be where he needs to be in regards to coverage and working with the corner. That has been an area of concern that past 2 seasons. Overall, his coverage was not good last year when he played. Say what you want about his tackling late but his coverage was suspect. Marshall also hasn't shown he is legitmately a #2 corner yet and not simply a very good nickel corner. That isn't vague. If there isn't improvement there and you factor in a weaker pass rush that is a cause for concern.

I am not getting into the Pep thing anymore. The board thinks he is garbage and that the coverage got him the sacks. That is retarded. Sure, Pep was inconsistant. Peppers was beast-like often last season and was the only pass rush we have seen over the past 2 seasons.

Let the secondary with this DL show up against some talent before predictions are made about how good they are......that is all I am saying. They could be awesome......they might not. There is enough legit reasoning to see it going either way until they put some legit work in to show us. A couple days of TC ain't enough.