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Wow geno smith to the raiders

raleigh-panther

By raleigh-panther,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, frankw said:

Mike Macdonald walked right in and won as many games as Pete Carroll has in the last ten years. The NFC has weakened drastically over that same decade. That's just the reality. Being "average" in this rendition of the NFC is not a badge of honor. It's the bare minimum. Even that slob Matt Rhule briefly looked halfway competent early on.

Again. It sounds like you definitely are high on Pete Carroll via whatever affiliation you have I do not know I honestly don't care. But that doesn't require me to share your viewpoint. It's fine to disagree without whatever all this is. Especially over Pete Carroll of all people.

Just as many, you say? 

You mean the season that would be the 6th best in the past 10 years for the Seahawks in winning percentage?

You think consistently winning 10+ games is "average" and comparable to Matt Rhule's 5-11, 5-12 and 1-4 campaigns???

I have no particular allegiance to 'ol Sneaky Pete other than I hold him in similar regard as I do to guys like Harbaugh, Tomlin, Reid, etc. He's genuinely one of the best coaches of his era. 

Now the equivalencies you are making are just....wow. 

My God, I guess you have a bust for Dave Canales ready after this 5-12 season, right? He's basically as good as Dan Campbell, right? 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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6 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He's a better coach. It's not really debatable. I'm not expecting a successful run for him this time. Maybe he does it again but I just can't see it.

I think he will be relatively successful. Probably in the 8-11 win range for the most part. I don't see the makings of any deep playoff runs there. But despite the perception of that being a stellar division, the Broncos are suspect, as are the Chargers. Great coaches but the rosters are pretty flawed, which is the same way I view the Carroll/Geno Raiders. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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7 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Pete Caroll coaching the Raiders this year is gonna be like Sam Darnold going nuts on the Vikings last year.  Page after page was posted about how Sam Darnold was absolutely the worst football player to ever exist, and had 0 redeeming qualities.  Only to watch those takes get slowly backpedaled week after week.

Well, Darnold also showed who he REALLY was in the end, however. 

I suspect his next stop he will be an unmitigated disaster because he won't have the safety nets that he had nor the wunderkind HC. He will always be the same player, million dollar talent and a ten cent head. 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Just as many, you say? 

You mean the season that would be the 6th best in the past 10 years for the Seahawks in winning percentage?

You think consistently winning 10+ games is "average" and comparable to Matt Rhule's 5-11, 5-12 and 1-4 campaigns???

I have no particular allegiance to 'ol Sneaky Pete other than I hold him in similar regard as I do to guys like Harbaugh, Tomlin, Reid, etc. He's genuinely one of the best coaches of his era. 

Now the equivalencies you are making are just....wow. 

My God, I guess you have a bust for Dave Canales ready after this 5-12 season, right? He's basically as good as Dan Campbell, right? 

Let's be forthright here. I never said Carroll is a bad coach. Never said he isn't a good coach. I'm guessing you took issue with me saying he's not been all that strikingly different from Ron Rivera the last several years. Well that's not a lie.

That's where the disconnect begins. One of the best of the era? Based on what? Winning one of the most comically and pathetically lopsided Super Bowls in decades? No sir ☝️

Doug Pederson has as many Super Bowl trophies as Pete Carroll. I suppose we should make room for him up there on your coaching Mt Rushmore.

As far as Canales. Let me be direct. I like him based on what I've seen and I have high hopes for him but he's gotta hit the ground running this season and the standards I've discussed here very obviously apply to both him and Bryce Young and I think you should know as well as anyone here I'm not going to give either of them a pass for shitty football. There's no excuse not to be competitive in this conference and particularly in this division.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Posted
1 minute ago, frankw said:

Let's be forthright here. I never said Carroll is a bad coach. Never said he isn't a good coach. I'm guessing you took issue with me saying he's not been all that strikingly different from Ron Rivera the last several years. Well that's not a lie.

That's where the disconnect begins. One of the best of the era? Based on what? Winning one of the most comically and pathetically lopsided Super Bowls in decades? No sir ☝️

Doug Pederson has as many Super Bowl trophies as Pete Carroll. I suppose we should make room for him up there on your coaching Mt Rushmore.

As far as Canales. Let me be direct. I like him based on what I've seen and I have high hopes for him but he's gotta hit the ground running this season and the standards I've discussed here very obviously apply to both him and Bryce Young and I think you should know as well as anyone here I'm not going to give either of them a pass for shitty football. There's no excuse not to be competitive in this conference and particularly in this division.

I think the rub was comparing a career under .500 HC to a guy that is a HOF head coach. That math don't math, no matter how many variables you add to the equation. 

Then you go and compare him to one of the worst HC's in NFL history(literally by winning percentage this is accurate) in Matt Rhule.

Doug Pederson is a pretty good comp for Ron. Both went to a SB, Doug just happened to win his. Both under .500 career winning percentage. Doug has an advantage in total winning seasons over his career but also only had 1 double digit winning season in his career. 

Now had you made that comp, I wouldn't have had to point out how incredibly stupid it was. Also, if you had done the same if this was about Tomlin or Jim Harbaugh or literally any actually good coach(fug, I might have even had to defend.....shudder....Sean Payton) with a literal "top 10 in their era" resume I would have also continued to dunk all over your comparison(s). I am not emotionally attached to the argument outside I think it's one of the worst series of comparisons I have ever seen here.

For Canales, he is better than I expected. I suspect he will have some moderate success elsewhere when he inevitably gets fired for not being able to muster a winning season with some of the worst rosters in the history of the franchise. He would have to really lay and egg over the next season and whatever portion of the following season he gets for me to think he will be largely to blame. Sort of the same way a lot of us felt about Joe Brady taking the fall for the messes Rhule made. 

 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I think the rub was comparing a career under .500 HC to a guy that is a HOF head coach. That math don't math, no matter how many variables you add to the equation. 

Then you go and compare him to one of the worst HC's in NFL history(literally by winning percentage this is accurate) in Matt Rhule.

Doug Pederson is a pretty good comp for Ron. Both went to a SB, Doug just happened to win his. Both under .500 career winning percentage. Doug has an advantage in total winning seasons over his career but also only had 1 double digit winning season in his career. 

Now had you made that comp, I wouldn't have had to point out how incredibly stupid it was. Also, if you had done the same if this was about Tomlin or Jim Harbaugh or literally any actually good coach(fug, I might have even had to defend.....shudder....Sean Payton) with a literal "top 10 in their era" resume I would have also continued to dunk all over your comparison(s). I am not emotionally attached to the argument outside I think it's one of the worst series of comparisons I have ever seen here.

For Canales, he is better than I expected. I suspect he will have some moderate success elsewhere when he inevitably gets fired for not being able to muster a winning season with some of the worst rosters in the history of the franchise. He would have to really lay and egg over the next season and whatever portion of the following season he gets for me to think he will be largely to blame. Sort of the same way a lot of us felt about Joe Brady taking the fall for the messes Rhule made.

The core of my point beyond comparing coaches was my own personal opinion that just being average in this conference is overrated from my perspective. All I've known is losing in the Charlotte area growing up here. That's this sports town. I just laugh at it. If we aren't legitimately competing for a championship and bragging rights over the rest of this division then honestly I don't much give a poo. Mediocre to average doesn't move the needle for me anymore. Already lived it.

Now as far as where we are now comparing coaches. Since you brought him up I'm going to have to do something I really really do not like and that is praise Sean Payton.  We all despised him with a passion for years but his resume IMO is better than Pete Carroll's and unequivocally deserves to be regarded as one of the best of the era. I don't like it one bit. But that's the truth.

Canales future is directly dependent on Morgan's ability to successfully build a roster via the draft. Any coach would be doomed if Dan continues down Fitterer’s path. This is going to be one of our most consequential offseasons in years.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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11 minutes ago, frankw said:

The core of my point beyond comparing coaches was my own personal opinion that just being average in this conference is overrated from my perspective. All I've known is losing in the Charlotte area growing up here. That's this sports town. I just laugh at it. If we aren't legitimately competing for a championship and bragging rights over the rest of this division then honestly I don't much give a poo. Mediocre to average doesn't move the needle for me anymore. Already lived it.

Now as far as where we are now comparing coaches. Since you brought him up I'm going to have to do something I really really do not like and that is praise Sean Payton.  We all despised him with a passion for years but his resume IMO is better than Pete Carroll's and unequivocally deserves to be regarded as one of the best of the era. I don't like it one bit. But that's the truth.

Canales future is directly dependent on Morgan's ability to successfully build a roster via the draft. Any coach would be doomed if Dan continues down Fitterer’s path. This is going to be one of our most consequential offseasons in years.

It's definitely not better than Carroll but it is comparable. Pretty similar overall success and stats. But, he is also likely going to end up a HOF caliber coach unless he shits the bed(God we all hope) in Denver.

Dan just looked too much like Fitterer last offseason in the draft. I think he did okay in free agency but we all know that isn't a path to success. I fear we are going to blow up the cap in free agency and then crap our pants in the draft. 

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