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For those of you who want to run out John Fox of Charlotte

pantherrice

By pantherrice,
in Carolina Panthers

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PantherBob Newbie

PantherBob

Posted
Posted

Honestly if you look at Dungy's career in Tampa and Fox's in Carolina the first several years were very similar.

Dungy-

first year 1996- 7-9

1997- started 5-0- finished 10-6 made playoffs

1998- fell back to 8-8- did have to play first 6 games on the roadwhile stadium was finished.

1999- 11-5 went to Championship game

2000- 10-6 lost in playoffs

2001-9-7- lost in playoffs.

Fox

First year- 2002- 7-9

2003- started off 6-0 finished 10-6 went to Super Bowl

2004- 7-9 (you know the story)

2005- 11-5 went to Championship game

2006- 8-8

2007- 7-9

2008- 12-4 lost in playoffs

2009- 8-8

Dungy made it 6 seasons. During that time Tampa won 5 games more than Fox did in his first 6 years. Tampa played in an easier division especially compared to the NFC South in the last 5 years. Dungy was also lucky not to have severe injuries at key positions like QB. And in the end he had to go elsewhere to get his ring which I think will be the same as it will be with Fox.

The old NFC central was FAR superior to the current NFC south. The bucs had to deal with two perrenial playoff teams every year with the vikings and packers who were in the playoffs year in and year out. The South has never had a perrenial playoff team.

Your stats prove it all. Tampa was a perrenial playoff team year in and year out as well in his 6 seasons with the team something the panthers have never been under Fox. Dungy is and always be a much better coach than Fox. There is no comparison

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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So mediocrity with the occasional playoff appearance is alright with you? I am right with you that Fox has done good things for this team and hes a good coach but like any relationship sometimes its best to just move on. If we dont make the playoffs this year then its time to move on.

Your argument about injuries is not valid due to the fact every team deals with them just as we do.

Injuries are not all equal. There have been times where we have dealt with multiple injuries and done fine and other times had one key injury- Jake in 2007 and didn't recover. But I know of few teams that had 13 starters get put on IR in a season and make the playoffs. And we missed by 1 game.

But frankly I agree with you that it could be time to move on. I would be fine with it if we don't make the playoffs. There are guys both on the staff and outside who could do a good job. Sometimes the message gets old and change is necessary to move to get over the hump.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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The old NFC central was FAR superior to the current NFC south. The bucs had to deal with two perrenial playoff teams every year with the vikings and packers who were in the playoffs year in and year out. The South has never had a perrenial playoff team.

Your stats prove it all. Tampa was a perrenial playoff team year in and year out as well in his 6 seasons with the team something the panthers have never been under Fox. Dungy is and always be a much better coach than Fox. There is no comparison

In doing the records over the 3 years we are talking about the NFC Central won 1 playoff game in that span. The NFC South did as well. So they were very similar. The NFC central did win a few more regular season games but if the measure of a franchise I keep hearing is winning a Lombardi and playoff games, neither was that great.

Packers 1999- 8-8

Packers 2000- 9-7

Packers 2001- 12-4

I playoff appearance-crushed in first round

Minnesota- 1999-10-6 lost in second round of playoffs

Minnesota- 2000-11-5 lost in first round

Minnesota- 2001- 5-11

Chcago- no need to say much

So they had 1 playoff win in the three year period I was talking about where Dungy's and Fox's record diverged a few games.

NFC South-

2006- Saints- 10-6 lost in Championship round

2007- Saints-7-9

2008- Saints- 8-8

2006- Falcons- 7-9

2007- falcons 4-12

2008- falcons- 11-5 lost in first round

Tell the Glazers how great Dungy was when they fired him because he couldn't win in the playoffs or go to the Superbowl. I actually think he should have been kept there but he didn't really get his full due until he went to Indy. The same might be said if Fox leaves for elsewhere and finally wins the big one.

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PantherBob Newbie

PantherBob

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In doing the records over the 3 years we are talking about the NFC Central won 1 playoff game in that span. The NFC South did as well. So they were very similar. The NFC central did win a few more regular season games but if the measure of a franchise I keep hearing is winning a Lombardi and playoff games, neither was that great.

Packers 1999- 8-8

Packers 2000- 9-7

Packers 2001- 12-4

I playoff appearance-crushed in first round

Minnesota- 1999-10-6 lost in second round of playoffs

Minnesota- 2000-11-5 lost in first round

Minnesota- 2001- 5-11

Chcago- no need to say much

So they had 1 playoff win in the three year period I was talking about where Dungy's and Fox's record diverged a few games.

NFC South-

2006- Saints- 10-6 lost in Championship round

2007- Saints-7-9

2008- Saints- 8-8

2006- Falcons- 7-9

2007- falcons 4-12

2008- falcons- 11-5 lost in first round

Tell the Glazers how great Dungy was when they fired him because he couldn't win in the playoffs or go to the Superbowl. I actually think he should have been kept there but he didn't really get his full due until he went to Indy. The same might be said if Fox leaves for elsewhere and finally wins the big one.

It wasnt uncommon for the Central to put in 3 teams in the playoffs and they always had at least 2 teams. The south has only put in 2 teams in the playoffs three times. The south also inherited the bucs the year they won the super bowl from the central. They were already a super bowl calibre team before they got here. So the super bowl argument really doesnt hold any water in this case.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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It wasnt uncommon for the Central to put in 3 teams in the playoffs and they always had at least 2 teams. The south has only put in 2 teams in the playoffs three times. The south also inherited the bucs the year they won the super bowl from the central. They were already a super bowl calibre team before they got here. So the super bowl argument really doesnt hold any water in this case.

Again I was talking about a specfic period of time when Fox's record and Dungy diverged. And they were very similar. As for Tampa being a Super bowl caliber team, the fact that they won it that year and have sucked much of the time snce says to me that their success in 2002 was more a perfect storm than an indication of how great they were. I don't know if Gruden plays anyone but his old team Oakland that they even win the Superbowl that year.

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Anybodyhome Grand Master

Anybodyhome

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Originally Posted by Panthers8192

"I like Fox, but like someone said sometimes it is just best to move on. If Fox can manage a playoff season this year with so much uncertainty surrounding this team I think he deserves an extension. If he can't maybe we look around a little bit."

There is a very large part of this that goes back to the 2011 impending/inevitable lockout-

Q: Who gets paid during a lockout?

A: The coaching staff.

Q: How many coaches on the staff are currently in the last year of their contract?

A: Most of them.

Q: How much money will Jerry Richardson and the organization save by not paying a coaching staff during a lockout year?

A: A ton, no doubt.

Jerry Richardson will wait until the absolute last possible minute to pry open the checkbook and decide to pay someone with a lockout looming. Personally, I think he's already reached out to someone who has agreed to take the job and I think John Fox getting through the 2010 season is a mere formality.

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