Bears Following Panther / Saints blueprint

[Waldo]

13 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

 

I wasn’t asking why KC would trade him, it was more of why they only got a 4th rounder for him (although a team who had issues protecting their QB last year now trading their best OL, contract issue aside, is also a tad odd)

An OL of his caliber, even at his age, should still be elite through another contract, I’m just shocked that a future 4th was the best they could get.

No he isn't likely going to be elite for another contract. He is a great bridge guy who is going to decline on the field soon so either they extend him with something like a 3 year deal with 2 year opt out. That's worth a 4th. If he was 29 he would be worth a 2nd and gaint new contract. It's not really shocking. He is leaving a team with multiple rings just coming off a SB loss. Those rosters have to make these moves and it's not like they are thrilled with it, it's necessary.

Edited 14 hours ago by Waldo

[mrcompletely11]

20 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

 

I wasn’t asking why KC would trade him, it was more of why they only got a 4th rounder for him (although a team who had issues protecting their QB last year now trading their best OL, contract issue aside, is also a tad odd)

An OL of his caliber, even at his age, should still be elite through another contract, I’m just shocked that a future 4th was the best they could get.

He will be 33.  The average age of linemen in the nfl is 26 years old.  They are playing the odds and getting something in return while they can.  Smart move

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He will be 33.  The average age of linemen in the nfl is 26 years old.  They are playing the odds and getting something in return while they can.  Smart move

It's not about average age, it's that the true elite linemen these days tend to play at a high level into their late 30's, and he was a 1st team All Pro this past year, while playing out of position for much of it when they mo0ved him to LT, he really should have a good 3-5 years of elite play left in him.

For a team that had pass protection issues, I think a future 4th rounder is a pittance in return for a player like that.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

It's not about average age, it's that the true elite linemen these days tend to play at a high level into their late 30's, and he was a 1st team All Pro this past year, while playing out of position for much of it when they mo0ved him to LT, he really should have a good 3-5 years of elite play left in him.

For a team that had pass protection issues, I think a future 4th rounder is a pittance in return for a player like that.

Its 100% about average age.  They are playing the odds.  He is going to fall off a cliff at some point.  They decided to get something for him while they still could.  For that position that is a master stroke of a move.   Can they get an all pro via the draft or FA?  Probably not but I bet your ass they can get a competent starter for cheaper.

 

Much like theilen, much like moton, just because their play was good the year prior thats not an indicator of future success at their age.  Its simply easier to remember Father time is undefeated. 

[tukafan21]

35 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Its 100% about average age.  They are playing the odds.  He is going to fall off a cliff at some point.  They decided to get something for him while they still could.  For that position that is a master stroke of a move.   Can they get an all pro via the draft or FA?  Probably not but I bet your ass they can get a competent starter for cheaper.

 

Much like theilen, much like moton, just because their play was good the year prior thats not an indicator of future success at their age.  Its simply easier to remember Father time is undefeated. 

Again, less about moving on from him and more about what they got in return to move on from him.

I have to imagine some team out there in a win now mode would have given up better than a 2026 4th rounder for him if one of their only holes was on the OL.

When you combine it with them losing a 1st team all pro at a position they were already weak on this past year, then yea, it's just a really weird trade to me, and nothing close to the master stroke of a move you seem to think it is.

[mrcompletely11]

32 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Again, less about moving on from him and more about what they got in return to move on from him.

I have to imagine some team out there in a win now mode would have given up better than a 2026 4th rounder for him if one of their only holes was on the OL.

When you combine it with them losing a 1st team all pro at a position they were already weak on this past year, then yea, it's just a really weird trade to me, and nothing close to the master stroke of a move you seem to think it is.

Bro, 3 posters now have tried to explain to you the question you asked.  He is 33, making a hefty salary at a position that tends to fall off fast.   They are playing the odds of parting ways and getting something in return.  I suspect they went through the nfl channels and a 4rth is the best they could get.  Which is really good all things considered.   What he did last year has absolutely no bearing going into the 2025 season.  They can easily either draft a starter or pay for one at a fraction of a cost and have comparable game play.  The fact that they did get a 4rth for an aging player is the very definition of a master stroke of roster building.  Again 3 posters have articulated this for you and at some point its not our job to break this down to a point where it makes sense to you. 

 

What in your mind do you think the Chiefs should have gotten for a 33 year old guard on a big deal?

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Bro, 3 posters now have tried to explain to you the question you asked.  He is 33, making a hefty salary at a position that tends to fall off fast.   They are playing the odds of parting ways and getting something in return.  I suspect they went through the nfl channels and a 4rth is the best they could get.  Which is really good all things considered.   What he did last year has absolutely no bearing going into the 2025 season.  They can easily either draft a starter or pay for one at a fraction of a cost and have comparable game play.  The fact that they did get a 4rth for an aging player is the very definition of a master stroke of roster building.  Again 3 posters have articulated this for you and at some point its not our job to break this down to a point where it makes sense to you. 

 

What in your mind do you think the Chiefs should have gotten for a 33 year old guard on a big deal?

And again, as I've said multiple times, the elite of the elite OL, like Thuney, are able to play into their mid to late 30's these days, because even as they get a step slower, they're good enough through all the other facets of their game to make up for it.

But you just want to ignore that because of "the odds."

He also had another year left on his deal, which if I'm KC, if the best I can get is a 4th rounder 2 years from now, I'm just keeping him for the final year and letting him go in FA the next offseason to then pick up a comp pick that could even end up being a 3rd rounder in that same 2026 draft anyways.

And you say he's a 33 year old with a big contract, but he actually had a very reasonable cap hit next year of only $16 million it looks like, which for a player of his caliber, is more than worth it and not something they could replace with comparable game play, the guy was literally a 1st team all pro this past season.

If you staunchly believe he's going to fall off a cliff next year, that's different, but this guy was just voted the team MVP by the Chiefs players, on a team with Mahomes, Chris Jones, and Kelce, while having the highest pass block rate of any lineman in the league over the last 2 seasons.  There's been nothing about him that says he's about to fall off a cliff, you're saying this is a stroke of genius based on the expected decline of OL in their 30's, something Thuney is more likely than not, to avoid in the manner you're referring to it.  

As even if he falls off a tiny bit, he's still producing at a level above a $16M cap hit next year.

Edited 11 hours ago by tukafan21

[Basbear]

KC has chosen to pay Smith the young OG. They basically want to move the cap of thuney to the younger smith. 

@tukafan21 think of injuries too, they hit older players more. The issue is if he's on the roster for week 1, that 20 million is guaranteed. I hate to view players this way, but he's stock that at any point could tank.

You cannot pay everyone, especially on winning teams. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

Why do people believe that linemen are reliable into their mid 30s because of a few exceptional edge cases?  It’s like believing QBs can now play until 45 because of Tom Brady.

Go look up the top T, G, C on all pro teams and PFF grades.  The majority are like 26-28.

Edited 11 hours ago by PNW_PantherMan

[Basbear]

8 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Why do people believe that linemen are reliable into their mid 30s because of a few exceptional edge cases?  It’s like believing QBs can now play until 45 because of Tom Brady.

Go look up the top T, G, C on all pro teams and PFF grades.  The majority are like 26-28.

 

Trent willimas is only LT playing at high level into his 30s, but injuries caught him this year. Plus he did sit out a full year in protest. 

It's not just OL, the whole league over the last 10 years has took a turn towards youth. 30 in the NFL is a fossil. Simply too many college teams turning out cheaper options. 

You look at FA class and like half it feels are either 30, 31, 29, or 32. Draft is right around the corner, some 275 will get drafted and another 500 signed as UDFAs. It's a meat grinder, super props to any player able to play 10 year careers. It just doesn't happen, crazy how it happened and no one talks about it. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Basbear

[Icege]

Everybody knows that the only way a QB can be worth the #1 overall pick is if he can throw for 5k yards behind a 12th string interior OL. Bears should've drafted Bo Nix!!

 

Am I doing it right?