Panther Selection on 'ESPN's 2010 Top Prospects' a Mild Surprise

[Darth Biscuit]

Jake never seemed to throw to anyone but Smitty and Moose... with rare exceptions... and except last year when he only tried to force it to Smitty... I've always wondered if that was the system or the QB. I guess we'll find out.

[beastson]

Dont worry, Matt got em

[Davidson Deac II]

Jake never seemed to throw to anyone but Smitty and Moose... with rare exceptions... and except last year when he only tried to force it to Smitty... I've always wondered if that was the system or the QB. I guess we'll find out.

When was the last time we had someone to throw it to, other than smith and moose? I would say probably 2003, when we had Smith, Moose, Foster, Proehl etc. 8 players caught 10 or more passes that year.

Of course, last year he threw quite a few to players other than smith and moose. Unfortunately, they were not wearing Panther jersey's.

[SorthNarolina]

Jake never seemed to throw to anyone but Smitty and Moose... with rare exceptions... and except last year when he only tried to force it to Smitty... I've always wondered if that was the system or the QB. I guess we'll find out.

Moore got the ball to Smitty no prob without throwing 5,817 picks. The 2005 Delhome blatantly forced the ball to Smitty without totally bombing.

[Davidson Deac II]

Fwiw, we had 63 completions to the tight end last year. Thats probably the most since Walls played. Rosario 26, King 25, Barnidge 12.

[monstercat]

After you hand the ball off a bazillion times and give Smitty his share there isn't a lot of touches to go around. I think they'll use him well but he's still not going to be productive. 400 yards would be a huge success. He also has to out-block King and overcome Fox's preference for veterans.

Even with those bazillion hand offs last year, the three Panthers TE's combined for 63 catches, 755yds, and 5 TD's. So Barnidge may not put up pro bowl numbers individually, but that's only because the Panthers use all three of their TE's instead of just relying on one guy.

Also, everybody needs to stop acting as if John Fox is the only coach in the NFL that prefers to start veterans. That is pretty much a universal mindset with coaches across the league, with few exceptions. If the ability level is fairly equal, every coach in the NFL is gonna go with the veteran guy almost every time, because they know they can trust the veterans to be in the right place at the right time.

[panthers55]

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=5&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Lets put one myth to bed and that is King is a great blocker and Barnidge sucks. This site did an analysis of play last year and Barnidge was rated the best receiver and best blocker of the three. Guess who was worst. Yeah, Jeff King

[Darth Biscuit]

When was the last time we had someone to throw it to, other than smith and moose? I would say probably 2003, when we had Smith, Moose, Foster, Proehl etc. 8 players caught 10 or more passes that year.

Of course, last year he threw quite a few to players other than smith and moose. Unfortunately, they were not wearing Panther jersey's.

True, but Rosario proved to be pretty reliable when thrown to.. (see San Diego opener two years ago)... my question is, was it the system that didn't get the ball to the TE's or Jake?

Moore got the ball to Smitty no prob without throwing 5,817 picks. The 2005 Delhome blatantly forced the ball to Smitty without totally bombing.

Exactly... no doubt Jake lost it... but I'm specifically talking about throwing the ball to the TE's which we never seem to do, at least not the last few seasons.

The games Moore started last year, he spread the ball around way better than Jake did.

[panthers55]

True, but Rosario proved to be pretty reliable when thrown to.. (see San Diego opener two years ago)... my question is, was it the system that didn't get the ball to the TE's or Jake?

Exactly... no doubt Jake lost it... but I'm specifically talking about throwing the ball to the TE's which we never seem to do, at least not the last few seasons.

The games Moore started last year, he spread the ball around way better than Jake did.

Rosario actually was the least reliable receiver last year catching only 57% of the balls thrown his way.

As for spreading the ball around, we threw to the tight ends a good bit last year. We threw at them 98 times last year out of 468 passes thrown or 21% of the time. To the half backs backs we threw 74 times or 16% of the time. And to the receivers we threw 54% of the time. We threw 14 times to the FB or 3%. And I don't have a clue where the other 6% went. Maybe to the other team. LOL

As for who spread the ball out more, Moore or Jake, here is the best I could do. I found completed passes but not who the attempts went to

by the game.

But using that of the 79 passes Moore completed, 46 were to the receivers (58%), 18 went to TEs (23%) and 15% went to running backs (half backs and fullbacks combined).

If you compare that to the season averages he threw to the receivers more, the TEs about the same and less to the running backs.

No clear evidence at all that Moore spread the ball around more than Jake. Maybe someone else knows a site that compared who the ball was thrown at by the game but I couldn't.

[monstercat]

It's amazing how a fan will bring something up on a message board, such as "Fox refuses to play rookies", "the Panthers never throw to TE's", or "every other QB on the Panthers roster spread the ball around more than Delhomme", and the next thing you know, 4-5 other fans agree with it and it becomes an assumed fact by the majority. Yet, when you actually look at the evidence, it turns out that Fox actually does play rookies if they earn it (what a concept), the Panthers do throw it to TE's, and Jake actually spread the ball around just as much as Matt Moore, it just didn't seem that way because the results were different.

[Doyle]

boy i wish i could find the thread where I said this. but right now im just too lazy to do the work. i said along time ago that Barndige had Rosario and King beat.

It doesn't make you right until he actually does it.

[SorthNarolina]

Even with those bazillion hand offs last year, the three Panthers TE's combined for 63 catches, 755yds, and 5 TD's. So Barnidge may not put up pro bowl numbers individually, but that's only because the Panthers use all three of their TE's instead of just relying on one guy.

Also, everybody needs to stop acting as if John Fox is the only coach in the NFL that prefers to start veterans. That is pretty much a universal mindset with coaches across the league, with few exceptions. If the ability level is fairly equal, every coach in the NFL is gonna go with the veteran guy almost every time, because they know they can trust the veterans to be in the right place at the right time.

Every coach does but he sticks with his mantra even if we continue to lose.

We had a terrible run game in 05 but he stuck with Davis until the wheels fell off and then a little further on the rims. He even started him at Atlanta just running him right in the interior as he chugged away for 1-2 yards before giving way to foster who was immediately effective and had shown promise in 03 and 04.

Stuck with Jake Delhome even though he was constantly throwing the game away this year. waited until we were all but out of the playoffs to make a change. What's scary is if Delhome's finger was a legit injury. Nearly cried when he finally had to face the music.

He brought Mike Minter and Mike Rucker back 1 year after they should have been put out to pasture.

We're supplanting Kasay with kick off specialists just to cover up his weakening leg and old age. The KOS is an idea that is catching on as a legit strategy around NFL

He sticks to his philosophies about veteran players, which is admirable. But he could be a little more cold blooded. This year was nice but that's just because of the uncapped year, and it doesn't seem like he was behind it.

I'm not asking him to panic and start making changes at the first sign of trouble. But stuff like Delhome/Davis who were having consistent problems playing at a high level it just seemed stubborn.

[Darth Biscuit]

It's amazing how a fan will bring something up on a message board, such as "Fox refuses to play rookies", "the Panthers never throw to TE's", or "every other QB on the Panthers roster spread the ball around more than Delhomme", and the next thing you know, 4-5 other fans agree with it and it becomes an assumed fact by the majority. Yet, when you actually look at the evidence, it turns out that Fox actually does play rookies if they earn it (what a concept), the Panthers do throw it to TE's, and Jake actually spread the ball around just as much as Matt Moore, it just didn't seem that way because the results were different.

Well I didn't say that based on what someone else said (and I repped 55 for his review of the stats), but based on my own perceptions of watching them play, so... it does SEEM like they don't throw to TE's much.

[ChucktownK]

Card Chronicle

10. Gary Barnidge, TE, Carolina Panthers

For seven years now, the Panthers have failed to find a pass-catcher at tight end who could follow in the footsteps of the retired Wesley Walls. Kris Mangum couldn't run. Jermaine Wiggins went from eight catches in 2003 as a Panther to 71 in 2004 as a Viking. Mike Seidman and Michael Gaines never developed. Dante Rosario only teases, and Jeff King is a blocker first, second and third. Barnidge, a fifth-round pick out of Louisville in 2008, is the guy they've been waiting for. He has the speed to effectively run up the seam and take out the Cover 2. He also has the hands to hold onto the ball when Darren Sharper hits him or LaRon Landry breezes past him. He's the Panthers' second-best receiver. Once Carolina realizes it, Barnidge immediately becomes a sleeper tight end for fantasy purposes.