King, Rosario, Barnidge

[Davidson Deac II]

No it says that in 3 years as a pro we remember him getting separation once or twice a year and 1 huge catch against San Diego. If it was his first catch I bet the Seahawks were shocked we actually threw deep to the tight ends and were ignoring him. Barnidge got deep with separation more times last year alone than Rosario has in his career. Rosario long pass for the season last year was 26 yards. Barnidge's long pass last year was 55 yards and he averaged(20 yards a catch) almost as much per pass as Rosario's longest catch all year.

FWIW, Rosario caught 6 passes with Moore and 20 with Jake so no it wasn't Jake's fault. In fact he only caught 1 ball with Moore the last 3 games of the season. Barnidge only caught 2 balls in the last 5 weeks so I am not so sure that Moore is going to run up the numbers.

How many times do we remember any of our tight ends getting separation over the past 8 years? They don't get it much because Fox rarely runs patterns that allow them to get down the field. I remember Barnidge doing it exactly twice last year.

You can't just rattle off stats without looking at how the games turned out. Rosario caught 8 passes from Jake in Jakes last two games as a starter because Rosario was the safety valve and Jake was afraid to throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. Hard to get seperation when your QB has a risk of interception every time he throws it over 10 yards.

Against the Giants and Saints, we didn't throw the ball much because we had big leads and used the run more. Against Minnesota, we threw 9 passes to Smith, and the rest were spread among 7 or 8 receivers. Barnidge got separation on one play that game. Let me see us run some plays consistently which allow either one of them to actually get some separation, and I might agree with you. But until we start doing that, no way to know.

[panthers55]

How many times do we remember any of our tight ends getting separation over the past 8 years? They don't get it much because Fox rarely runs patterns that allow them to get down the field. I remember Barnidge doing it exactly twice last year.

You can't just rattle off stats without looking at how the games turned out. Rosario caught 8 passes from Jake in Jakes last two games as a starter because Rosario was the safety valve and Jake was afraid to throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. Hard to get seperation when your QB has a risk of interception every time he throws it over 10 yards.

Against the Giants and Saints, we didn't throw the ball much because we had big leads and used the run more. Against Minnesota, we threw 9 passes to Smith, and the rest were spread among 7 or 8 receivers. Barnidge got separation on one play that game. Let me see us run some plays consistently which allow either one of them to actually get some separation, and I might agree with you. But until we start doing that, no way to know.

Instead of discussing what you saw on television or at the game lets look at a professional site where experts actually look at game film and use an analysis to evaluate tight ends without an agenda or biased perspective.

Lets look beyond the obvious which is that Barnidge averaged 20 yards per catch versus Rosario's 12.0 and King's 8.0.

How about that seperation issue by looking at yards after the catch. No surprise here, it shows that Barnidge averaged 8.8 yards after the catch while Rosario averaged 5.1 and King averaged 2.9.

Then lets look at run blocking and it get interesting. What we all know is that King is the best blocker right?? Not according to the facts. Of the three TEs, Barnidge actually ranked the highest (24th) at a positive 1.9, Rosario ranked 52nd with a -0.6. Guess who ranked lowest of the three. Yeah King who was 96th with a -8.6.

How about pass blocking? Barnidge was 36th with a 0.4, Rosario and King were tied for 80th with a -0.9.

Lets look at the dropped passes issue.

Rosario dropped 2, while King and Barnidge dropped 0.

Who is most elusive? Barnidge caused 2 missed tackles, Rosario and King caused 0.

Gee this is fun. So much good information you can readily see when you actually look at the numbers which don't lie. Have your own fun with the site.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Yeah, I forgot that stats and analyses don't matter and your observations are so much better than a professional site with no ax to grind.

[Snake]

Probably Barnidge, I think Rosario plays HB sometimes which I havent' seen Barnidge do, and Barnidge hasn't looked better than rosario even though he has potential to be better.

I thought he played H-Back. IDK its so long ago I cant remember.

[outlaw4]

I'm just happy that we have three capable tight ends to choose from. It's much different from the old days where the choices were between Mangum (always starts), Seidman (always hurt), and Gaines (always drops). Ewwww!!!!

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Interesting website. I always had King as the best blocker of the trio and yet, that site says differently.

Considering the signs that we want to work on our passing game this time around, then Barnidge is the most likely starter coming into the season. Although King isn't very fast or get extra yardage, he is quite reliable so I would place him over Rosario, especially since Rosario has had mental gaps in the past (ex. error in punt protection).

[scpanther22]

Instead of discussing what you saw on television or at the game lets look at a professional site where experts actually look at game film and use an analysis to evaluate tight ends without an agenda or biased perspective.

Lets look beyond the obvious which is that Barnidge averaged 20 yards per catch versus Rosario's 12.0 and King's 8.0.

How about that seperation issue by looking at yards after the catch. No surprise here, it shows that Barnidge averaged 8.8 yards after the catch while Rosario averaged 5.1 and King averaged 2.9.

Then lets look at run blocking and it get interesting. What we all know is that King is the best blocker right?? Not according to the facts. Of the three TEs, Barnidge actually ranked the highest (24th) at a positive 1.9, Rosario ranked 52nd with a -0.6. Guess who ranked lowest of the three. Yeah King who was 96th with a -8.6.

How about pass blocking? Barnidge was 36th with a 0.4, Rosario and King were tied for 80th with a -0.9.

Lets look at the dropped passes issue.

Rosario dropped 2, while King and Barnidge dropped 0.

Who is most elusive? Barnidge caused 2 missed tackles, Rosario and King caused 0.

Gee this is fun. So much good information you can readily see when you actually look at the numbers which don't lie. Have your own fun with the site.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Yeah, I forgot that stats and analyses don't matter and your observations are so much better than a professional site with no ax to grind.

Do you know you come off a lil douchey at times?lol

[panthers55]

Do you know you come off a lil douchey at times?lol

I prefer condescending. LOL

[magnus]

Barnidge's blocking has improved but like most 6'5" guys it takes some adjustment. His advantages are speed and great hands. It has taken time to get him involved but it seems that it takes a year or two for any of our tight ends to break into the lineup for whatever reason.

What did King have his rookie year- 1 catch?? He would have had much fewer his second year if Carr could throw farther than 5 yards down the field while he was running around. After his breakout year of 46 catches in 2007 his production has been around 1 to 2 catches per game for 8 or 9 yards a catch. Barnidge in 12 catches last year in 7 games had more yards than King did with twice as many catches (25) starting 15 games.

If Barnidge hasn't learned to block in 2 seasons it is as much a testament to poor TE coaching as it is to Barnidge not catching on. Chryst may have good credentials but he hasn't done much here for our TEs.

I think you are right about signing him to a cheap contract. On the other hand with the rash of cuts to veterans, who knows if he won't be on the chopping block. If Fox is gone at the end of this year and we bring in a guy less wedded to the running game I can clearly see where King's role could become obselete given he really can't do much else but block.

we get it, you'll beat everyone over the head with your unabashed love for Gary Barnidge.

[panthers55]

we get it, you'll beat everyone over the head with your unabashed love for Gary Barnidge.

Look at the numbers, what is there not to like??

And yes you are right I am very happy we drafted him. I have suffered through a bunch of crappy TEs since Wesley retired and am excited that we actually have one with some potential. It has been so long for most people we have actually forgotten how much a good TE can open things up for the run and passing game. Now if Davidson and Fox will only use him this year he could be our version of Jason Witten.

[magnus]

Look at the numbers, what is there not to like??

And yes you are right I am very happy we drafted him. I have suffered through a bunch of crappy TEs since Wesley retired and am excited that we actually have one with some potential. It has been so long for most people we have actually forgotten how much a good TE can open things up for the run and passing game. Now if Davidson and Fox will only use him this year he could be our version of Jason Witten.

ok

[The Question]

Im sure this has been has been said but I was too lazy to read through the whole thread, King would never be cut because of his blocking capability.

[Baschski]

Probably Barnidge, I think Rosario plays HB sometimes which I havent' seen Barnidge do, and Barnidge hasn't looked better than rosario even though he has potential to be better.

Move to an isolated desert island and cut off all communication with mankind immediately.

[SorthNarolina]

Move to an isolated desert island and cut off all communication with mankind immediately.

I don't think it's that crazy of an idea. Remember the question was if you had to cut one which one would you pick. It's not like I actually want to cut Barnidge. I like Barnidge better long term but not short term. So I cut the one with the lowest short term benefit.

Barnidge has a great build, he's fast, strong, with good hands, he's gotten deep on linebackers more than a few times but Jakes passes were never good enough.

Overall all though he hasn't shown enough that I think he'll be immediately better than Rosario. So if I have to cut a guy I want the one with the most immediate benefit.

[SorthNarolina]

I thought he played H-Back. IDK its so long ago I cant remember.

I saw him back there either as a FB or HB. I don't know if you could still say he was lining up at TE when he was back there. Might have been in Power I or wing T sets(is that even a pro formation?) it's very very fuzzy. He wouldn't be there to run the ball just block.

[BlindSite]

With the running backs we have and the necessity of having good blocking TE's if forced, you cut you're worst blocker, which is barnidge.