NASCAR is officially the WWF...

[Nicbsbll2]

I have the engineering degree and then went on to law school. You have to have an engineering degree to do patent law.

UNC Charlotte. Great facilities, great profs, and an ever growing reputation within the Engineering field. NCSU is the "better" school, but you can't go wrong with Charlotte's engineering program. Plus the ladies are so much finer at Charlotte than any of the other engineering programs in the state.

That's an oxymoron. Fine =/= girls in engineering

[pantherfan49]

That's an oxymoron. Fine =/= girls in engineering

Yeah after reading that it didn't come out the way I wanted it.

What I meant was, out of the 4 Engineering Schools in the state NCSU, NCA&T, Duke, and UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Charlotte as a whole has better looking girls than the other schools, regardless of the academic major. You still won't find many women in any of the engineering programs.

[pantherfan49]

He looks just like daddy, so it won't be a problem...

Wait until he starts surfing the web looking for busty women.

[Darth Biscuit]

Wait until he starts surfing the web looking for busty women.

Starts?

Nah, his mom won't let that happen... for now.

He's already pretty good about checkin' them out if we're out and about...

[Johnny Rockets]

Me too. Heck, I have a degree in Motorsports Engineering and was set to work in NASCAR but the blatant cheating for JR drove me away from the sport.

Props again on the avatar. I think it is your best yet.

I am curious.....how is the blantant cheating accomplished and why are they so bad at it?

[Carl Spackler]

I am curious.....how is the blantant cheating accomplished and why are they so bad at it?

That's really my only question. NASCAR, in its history, has fixed only 47 races? All the Cup, NNS and non-points races Dale Jr. has ever won are the ONLY races that have ever been fixed, that's what I'm getting here, and other places, and in person.

Can anyone really say that adds up? 2000 DirecTV 500: "OK guys, today we're going to fix the race for Dale Jr. Just like we fixed only the races he won in the Busch Series."

[pantherfan49]

I am curious.....how is the blantant cheating accomplished and why are they so bad at it?

They don't "rig" races (as we incorrectly use the word due to the word's association with wrestling). They allow JR to go through tech in a different way than they do other drivers.

For example, at Daytona, they place templates over the car and the car is allowed so much deviation from that template. In some places on the car it is 1/8 of an inch, other places it is up to 1/2 of an inch. It is a very subjective inspection process before the race.

JR gets a little extra with all of his templates and at a place like Daytona where driver talent is significantly less important than the aerodynamics of a car, this "little extra" is worth 2-3 tenths on the track.

Plus NASCAR impounds all of the restrictor plates and doesn't allow independent verification of them after races. If NASCAR allowed a hundredth of an inch extra diameter on the restrictor plate, this would create a 5-10 HP advantage for the motor and also be worth a couple of tenths on the track.

The big restrictor plate tracks don't require much from the driver. You are basically a monkey sitting behind the steering wheel. Look at the list of drivers that have won at restrictor plate tracks that were marginal drivers at best: Derrike Cope, Sterling Marlin, Michael Waltrip, Ward Burton, Jimmy Spencer, the late Bobby Hamilton, and Ken Schrader to name a few.

So in that regard, NASCAR is better able to pull these races off for JR because his lack of talent isn't as apparent at the restrictor plate tracks where the car means everything. NASCAR pulls the same stunts at the other tracks, but JR's lack of talent is more evident as those tracks require more driver input.

[Carl Spackler]

They don't "rig" races (as we incorrectly use the word due to the word's association with wrestling). They allow JR to go through tech in a different way than they do other drivers.

For example, at Daytona, they place templates over the car and the car is allowed so much deviation from that template. In some places on the car it is 1/8 of an inch, other places it is up to 1/2 of an inch. It is a very subjective inspection process before the race.

JR gets a little extra with all of his templates and at a place like Daytona where driver talent is significantly less important than the aerodynamics of a car, this "little extra" is worth 2-3 tenths on the track.

Plus NASCAR impounds all of the restrictor plates and doesn't allow independent verification of them after races. If NASCAR allowed a hundredth of an inch extra diameter on the restrictor plate, this would create a 5-10 HP advantage for the motor and also be worth a couple of tenths on the track.

The big restrictor plate tracks don't require much from the driver. You are basically a monkey sitting behind the steering wheel. Look at the list of drivers that have won at restrictor plate tracks that were marginal drivers at best: Derrike Cope, Sterling Marlin, Michael Waltrip, Ward Burton, Jimmy Spencer, the late Bobby Hamilton, and Ken Schrader to name a few.

So in that regard, NASCAR is better able to pull these races off for JR because his lack of talent isn't as apparent at the restrictor plate tracks where the car means everything. NASCAR pulls the same stunts at the other tracks, but JR's lack of talent is more evident as those tracks require more driver input.

1) Those drivers haven't won 7 Cup plate races, just one-three, and if the engine's better, he wouldn't need drafting help. Which he got from his good friend, the driver most likely to help him win, Kyle Busch, on Friday, for a chunk of the race. So of course that makes sense given how close they are.

2) Jeff Gordon somehow hasn't gotten them rigged for him but he's won more. I guess if he wins or JJ wins, it's talent, but if Junior wins, oh God, it CANNOT be talent. Alright. Now I see.

3) He has won eleven times at non-plate tracks, twelve counting the Winston. So was he just using special tires, or was there a trap door on the track where someone else was driving his car, and he's just the model who gets out in victory lane?

All of this makes perfect sense to me now.

[Carl Spackler]

And while I hate to point out something after I've "given my response," considering that's usually how you and I debate, hell, Derrike Cope won at Dover too, does that also mean we must discount Dale Jr.'s success at Dover?

All I'm asking is, can you not admit that he's won some races fairly? Can you not at least admit that? He's won races where there should be no discussion about it being rigged. I don't believe NASCAR is rigged for anyone. But if you do, and it's just for him, enlighten me. Has he won some legit races or can you explain to me how each time, 47 times, he hasn't?

[Jbro]

I am sure Mrs. Zod was happy about the win from a work standpoint.

[pantherfan49]

1) Those drivers haven't won 7 Cup plate races, just one-three, and if the engine's better, he wouldn't need drafting help.

You absolutely can't do anything on a plate track without a drafting partner.

2) Jeff Gordon somehow hasn't gotten them rigged for him but he's won more. I guess if he wins or JJ wins, it's talent, but if Junior wins, oh God, it CANNOT be talent. Alright. Now I see.

Jeff Gordon is a good driver. I don't know of anybody that would dispute that.

3) He has won eleven times at non-plate tracks, twelve counting the Winston. So was he just using special tires, or was there a trap door on the track where someone else was driving his car, and he's just the model who gets out in victory lane?

Yes, it is a special car with a trap door. He also has special tires and special fuel.

Like I said, JR gets this treatment at non-plate tracks, it just isn't near as obvious because the driver matters at those non-plate tracks, so the advantages given to him aren't resulting in wins. That might be the difference between JR not qualifying versus him having a top 20 run.

Also, the Winston is nothing but a cheaters race, so don't put much stock in it. Conveniently, the Winston (or whatever it is called now) is a race with very high viewership where NASCAR would stand to gain quite a bit if JR won.

All of this makes perfect sense to me now.

Glad to clear it up for you.

[Carl Spackler]

You really are too kind. So, literally every race he's ever won is because it's rigged for his engine, or something?

[pantherfan49]

All I'm asking is, can you not admit that he's won some races fairly? Can you not at least admit that? He's won races where there should be no discussion about it being rigged. I don't believe NASCAR is rigged for anyone. But if you do, and it's just for him, enlighten me. Has he won some legit races or can you explain to me how each time, 47 times, he hasn't?

Again, NASCAR doesn't "rig" races. We use that term, but it isn't a correct term.

Has he won some legit races? I don't know. I bailed on the sport in 2004 after noticing some things in the tech room involving JR's car for the Daytona 500. Conveniently, he won that race. So anything happening after 2004 is pure speculation on my part.

Could he win if he were in JG's car? Probably a win here or there. He would be tough at plate tracks because, again, the driver doesn't matter much. Would he have won 47 times like you keep pointing out? Not a chance.

The real question is, how many wins would he have if his last name were Smith or Moore? The answer is undoubtedly ZERO.

[Carl Spackler]

I'm sorry, most of your reasons in justifying how he's never won a race fair and square literally make me laugh. I can't fully take them seriously. Besides, I'm trying to convince you he's won races fairly and is a good driver. You're trying to convince me he's the worst driver who ever lived, and has never won a race. I don't see anything I'm saying having an affect on your opinions or your argument, and what you're saying to me only serves to amuse me.

However, I love the discussion.