Fire the whole defensive staff?

[Mr. Scot]

I get why people are mad at Mike Trgovac. I am too. I'm a longtime critic, and jumped on the "fire Trgovac" bandwagon with both feet quite some time ago.

With that said, I've heard more than one person suggest that the entire defensive staff ought to be fired. That, I'm not sure I get.

Yes, the scheme sucked, and the whole "bend don't break" philosophy is crap. Still, those decisions are made at the top, not be the position coaches.

But based on the level to which individual players were coached, what's the rationale for firing position coaches like Tim Lewis, Sal Sunseri, Mike Gillhammer or Ken Flajole? :confused:

[Mesmer]

I'll be completely honest. I really do think that at just about every position on defense, we have good coaches. If you read anything about the players, or get the chance to ask them, I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing.

It may sound like a load of bull, but the proof's out on the field. Part of drafting really well is good scouting, making good picks. We all know that. However, those players have to be coached up a lot to be successful in the NFL. We have a lot of depth players on defense that surprised me this season. A lot of our late round picks, which are mostly project type players anyway, have started to show a good amount of progress. Usually, when you draft a guy in rounds 5-7, you expect them to take 3 or more years before you start to see them hit their stride. Our young guys are coming up fast on defense, and a lot of that can be attributed to these positional coaches.

I really don't think that we should get rid of any of them. The thing people don't understand is that there are different kinds of errors in football games that lead to losses. There's problems with fundamentals, and there's problems with schemes.

I haven't been keeping a tally, but it seems like the majority of the time our defense is shredded, the problem is the scheme. Sure, nobody was on Fitzgerald the entire first half. Those LB's and DB's were just playing the zones that they're supposed to play by design. That's not a problem with fundamentals and basic football skills. Most of our guys are pretty good tacklers, and year to year you see a lot of progress with most of the young guys.

In fact, the one thing that seems to be missing from our players' basic skill set on defense seems to be catching the ball. It's hard to blame anyone for that though. Tim Lewis could be a genius, but there's only so much coaching can do. Maybe they all really do have stone hands?

Either way, get rid of Trgovac if you're going to dump anybody at all. I'd be willing to keep Trgovac if he ran a completely different scheme, but I think there's a better chance that I'll win the lottery, and as I'm cashing in my ticket I'll be hit by lightning.

It's time to bring someone in who not only runs a better scheme for the players we have, but also knows when it's time to switch things up. Waiting until halftime to make an adjustment was way too late.

[frash.exe]

Not the entire staff, but Trgovac definitely should go, and Tim Lewis has just not had his secondary up to par either. That was his problem in NY. He just wasn't good enough.

'backer coaching looks pretty good as evidenced by an all-pro MLB and two OLBs with a penchant for getting to the QB.

and Dline, considering the talent we had to work with at the start of the season, not bad.

[carpanfan96]

I said something about most of the staff being fired, but I was mainly going for turgo and lewis on that one. We need to go out and get a new db coach or atleast a new dc that has the balls to use exotic blitz's and pressure to confuse qb's and cause offensive mistakes. thats mainly what I was going for.

[KSpan]

The talent is definitely there (I daresay on the coaching staff as well), as evidenced by the very solid defense played the first half of the season. If I'm remembering correctly they ran a lot more "simple" man defense and stressed getting pressure on the QB. However, it appeared to me that after the bye there was a fundamental shift in scheme that pushed things towards that crappy zone scheme that has been ticking us all off for the past 3 years... I don't get it. Is that Fox's prerogative? Were they just "keeping things simple" in coverage to allow for Godfrey to adjust? Why even mess with it when it's sure is not broken?

I guess my whole point is that I feel that the issue is 99% the fault of the scheming and that I think there is only 1 person to blame for that, perhaps Fox himself.

On a related note, whatever the D did in the second half worked a TON better than in the first. I understand that Arizona had a healthy lead at the start of the half, but the game was far from over and you could tell from Warner's reactions that the were clearly trying for the killshot. I absolutely feel that the lion's share of the blame falls squarely on the offensive side of the ball (obious post of the day).

[Zod]

Its really not a very difficult process.

First you shitcan Turgovac. If Fox won't, you shitcan Fox too.

Then you sit down and evaluate each defensive coach on one thing, how have the players under each coach developed as a collective.

I suspect the linebackers and secondary coach would be looked at favorably. The defensive line coach will be fired.

[Pimpdaddy]

Pretty sure nobody is going anywhere. The Big Cat has a bigger problem to deal with right now so it wouldnt suprise me if everything is left in tact. But if by some chance Turdo gets his ass fired i'll be the first one to uncork some Dom Perignon.....

[fitty76]

Pretty sure nobody is going anywhere. The Big Cat has a bigger problem to deal with right now so it wouldnt suprise me if everything is left in tact. But if by some chance Turdo gets his ass fired i'll be the first one to uncork some Dom Perignon.....

So because Richardson is sick, they won't make any changes? That's kind of irresponsible.

[SKULL]

Maybe the coaching is what brought on Richardsons heart problems faster.

Big Cat is a fan of the game just like everyone on here,and I'm sure he has been excited both positive and negative about his Product.

His son's and others will step in and take care of it

[SteveSmith23]

major d changes are needed, but yeah lewis and trg should be gone.

[PantherDude]

I wouldn't fire the whole defense staff. Just Turdo & maybe Lewis as well. We have the right players, but poor play skills from some of the staff.

[Kevin Greene]

Its really not a very difficult process.

First you sh*tcan Turgovac. If Fox won't, you sh*tcan Fox too.

Then you sit down and evaluate each defensive coach on one thing, how have the players under each coach developed as a collective.

I suspect the linebackers and secondary coach would be looked at favorably. The defensive line coach will be fired.

That's exactly where I'm at.

[bubbadawg]

Trgovac has proven over and over again that he is greatly lacking as a game coach. He has been able to coach and teach players here though. I still would like to see him gone.

The one question that needs to be asked is this " does Fox set the defensive scheme or just rubber stamp what Trgo brings him?" If he has abdicated control of the defense to Trgo without demanding that this become a more attacking defense then he should be gone as well. Somehow I beleive that Trgos bend don't break scheme is a direct reflection of Fox's conservative approach. Any good defense is an attacking defense and I haven't seen that in the panthers since the days of Kevin Greene and Lamar Lathon and now we have the talent to be truly scary and are letting the window slip by

[chbright]

2ns half we actually started bringing the house and it worked. i said this elsewhere, but the 2003,2004, and even 2005 D was more jacks guys who knew jacks style. this year its mostly post jack guys with the turds style. fox said he was going to dial up pressure in the 2nd and dammit we tried and got to warner a bit more. i think fox needs to can his ass and get someone new. this isnt like 03 where we kept a guy around for continuity, and to run someone elses D. we need a complete change on d. its been a consistant downturn sense 05 on d, and its become less jack players and more his bullshit. the 2nd half i think fox threw the blitzs we did have at them, which were few (but he atleast tried). turdo needs to go, and fox finally might do something about it. 155 yards for fotz in a half, and little to no pressure, soft zone bullshit and all bit us. this was not what we have seen on a Fox playoff D. 2nd half looked more like it, but by then we had dug a huge hole and our o couldnt step up either.

O is public enemy #1 right now, which is sad as the turd was all season long and has an excuse he will use for this L. idk if we can win it with jake, but we sure cant here out with the turd.