CBA agreement heats up as the NFLPA takes on the TV contract issue

[Rhys]

Its easy to hate the boss but the fact still remains that most owners are running a business. I really don't feel sorry for the players because they are all collage educated and should be smart enough to manage there money well and get a job after Football is over with. Now the ones with injuries and serious medical conditions are different but the healthy ones should be able to live life without football. The way I see it is this. If you dont like how the owners are running things then leave. Go about you life and find something else you like. Just like any other hard working American would do. Cause no one else in America get the opportunity they do. This is why I dont like unions and feel America would be better without them. All Unions do is cry about what they dont get yet piss on what they do get.

Schwat? America WOULD be better without unions... for the people with the money and the guys at the top. Unions are absolutely necessary in "Capitalism," or people at the bottom would get sh*t on even more than they do in most large corporations.

It is easy to hate the boss, when they're a billionaire former CEO of a New York Stock Exchange, and most of their fortune has been gained by basically moving money around and investing, not providing any real service or product to the country. Honestly, Dan Snyder is an exception, a lot of owners are perfectly respectable. A lot of people are ridiculously overpaid in this country, NFL players AND owners included. The whole situation is loathsome, because the NFL is embarrassingly wealthy for both sides.

[Rhys]

http://pirate.shu.edu/~rotthoku/papers/The%20Economics%20of%20NFL%20Team%20Ownership.pdf

• Over the past five years, average operating income per team has been $26.4

million. Last year, the average team earned approximately $25 million.

• When one takes into account both capital appreciation and operating income,

NFL owners have realized average total returns of nearly $100 million per

year per team, or an average annual return of 17.6 percent over the past

decade.

• The financial returns to NFL owners have been substantially greater than the

returns to investments in the overall U.S. economy as reflected in broadbased

stock market indices.

• The percentage of total revenues paid to players in the years following the

2006 CBA extension is lower than the average percentage paid to players

since the NFL and the players entered into the current salary cap/free agency

system in 1993. Recent increases merely reverse a downward trend that

began in 1999.

• The proportion of rookie player salaries in the NFL has declined over the

past decade.

• NFL owners have enjoyed substantial increases in their wealth under the

salary cap/free agency system. To the extent that the recent turmoil in the

financial markets may have an impact on future economic performance, the

current system contains an adjustment mechanism that will restrain the

salary cap and put a ceiling on the player compensation as a percentage of

overall revenues.

[Snake]

Schwat? America WOULD be better without unions... for the people with the money and the guys at the top. Unions are absolutely necessary in "Capitalism," or people at the bottom would get sh*t on even more than they do in most large corporations.

It is easy to hate the boss, when they're a billionaire former CEO of a New York Stock Exchange, and most of their fortune has been gained by basically moving money around and investing, not providing any real service or product to the country. Honestly, Dan Snyder is an exception, a lot of owners are perfectly respectable. A lot of people are ridiculously overpaid in this country, NFL players AND owners included. The whole situation is loathsome, because the NFL is embarrassingly wealthy for both sides.

Im sorry but you dont understand the Unions are not for the players but for a select few also. They were the ones that sold the former players rights away to EA sports for nothing and gave those players exactly that.

[Wither]

Rhys, you are taking a major interest in this, eh?

Also, unions suck, and players should plan for their own future after football. Many that have longer careers do and are successful after football as well (probably not making the same $).

[panthers55]

What makes the CBA situation so interesting is the fact that both sides have legitimate concerns. Right now the real issue is that the players are not looking for more, they are just looking to keep the status quo. They are willing to institute a rookie cap and likely play 18 games as long as they don't lose the 20% of revenue the owners are looking to take back.

The owners can make a case that they put up all the money and took all the risk, so they should take the money as well. I can't think of many industries where the employees and guaranteed 60% of the revenues. Sure tons of jobs are based on performance and involve bonuses but few are actually tied directly by a percentage to how much money the company makes. Thats what partners do, not employer/employee. They obviously feel that they gave too much away in the last CBA and are looking to renegotiate a lower percentage. Not to mention make players share in the cost of renovation (fat chance on that one). Why would a player give some of his money away to build a stadium unless he knew he would be there for a number of years. As long as they can be cut or traded, they have no interest in paying for infrastructure unless that buys them a piece of the stadium.

[Snake]

Rhys, you are taking a major interest in this, eh?

Also, unions suck, and players should plan for their own future after football. Many that have longer careers do and are successful after football as well (probably not making the same $).

I like to look at it this way.

Lets just say most people will make 50,000 a year by age 21. (I really doubt that will happen but its a generous assumption).

Now lets say you want to retire by age 61.

Thats 40 years you will make 50,000 dollars.

By the end of your career you will have made 2 million.

Most NFL players make 1.1 mill a year and have the avg careers of 3 years.

So by the end of there careers they will have made 3.3 Mill. Thats with only 3 years on the work force...... Not a bad deal if you ask me.

[Frizzy350]

unions are currently having a huge negative impact on our economy. i used to work for ups as a union employee and quit because i wanted to go to school and design software.

union workers get pretty much full health and dental benefits, which i actually like, its a viable alternative for people who really have no effective way to pay for these benefits, and u can get them while working a part time job. my problem is with the union workers who stay at the union for multiple years. i knew guys who drove little orange carts and dropping off tires at trucks and making over 30 dollars an hour doing this. guys who drive the big rigs get a salary paying 60,000 a year or more. im sorry, but this many people without a college education should NOT be making that much.

however if ur a dumbass working at target or wal mart in your young adult years, go quit and join a union to get on your feet. its well worth it.

[Wither]

I like to look at it this way.

Lets just say most people will make 50,000 a year by age 21. (I really doubt that will happen but its a generous assumption).

Now lets say you want to retire by age 61.

Thats 40 years you will make 50,000 dollars.

By the end of your career you will have made 2 million.

Most NFL players make 1.1 mill a year and have the avg careers of 3 years.

So by the end of there careers they will have made 3.3 Mill. Thats with only 3 years on the work force...... Not a bad deal if you ask me.

When you make more money, you spend more money. People assume with more money it lasts longer. The truth of the matter is you are inclined to spend more when you have more. The difference is there, but it's not like they are always set for life, especially considering how many don't do well or are just average players.

guys who drive the big rigs get a salary paying 60,000 a year or more. im sorry, but this many people without a college education should NOT be making that much.

Then you go do it. I'm sorry, but that is an ignorant perspective. Just because you don't think they should make that money doesn't mean their job isn't worth that much (the same goes for football, actually). But, in this case, you seem to have some issue with people making money without going to college. Driving a truck for hours on end for days at a time is actually not that much fun and is more difficult of a job than you think it is.

[Rhys]

Then you go do it. I'm sorry, but that is an ignorant perspective. Just because you don't think they should make that money doesn't mean their job isn't worth that much (the same goes for football, actually). But, in this case, you seem to have some issue with people making money without going to college. Driving a truck for hours on end for days at a time is actually not that much fun and is more difficult of a job than you think it is.

Plus, many people don't even have the opportunity to go to college. If you're born into a small town with terrible schools and your parents do drugs or are never there for you it's going to be a veritable miracle for you to go to college and graduate.

I think we all agree on the fact that athletes are overpaid, but regardless of that, it seems like you guys are taking for granted that the owners will not be spending this extra money for some divine purpose. When you concentrate most of the profits, profits that are well WELL over the operating costs, in a handful of billionaire/millionaires that money is not going to be getting back into the economy anytime soon.

You can boo-hoo all you want over Brandon Marshall and Julius Peppers, and let me re-iterate, I also WHOLLY believe they are ridiculously overpaid, but compared to people like Paul Allen (owner of the Seahawks) who is worth something like 14 BILLION, 14-18 million a year sounds like a paltry sum. Granted, I think an entrepreneur like Allen should make more money Peppers, but having 14 billion in your name is just sickeningly rich, it's embarrassingly rich.

Isn't the owner's lack of transparency on their finances not a clear indication that they're hiding something?

As I said, to me the whole situation is loathsome. Maybe I'm just a hopeless sympathetic with this country as a whole, but I find it disturbing that the owners and the NFLPA are squabbling over the extra millions to be had while everyone around them suffers in a depression.

But they don't care, especially the owners, because if there IS a lockout in 2011, they'll still be making a healthy profit on their investment. Who the f*ck cares if they rob the country of it's favorite sport for a year, all the while steadily increasing their own sick fortunes. Give me a f*cking break...

[Rhys]

Rhys, you are taking a major interest in this, eh?

Haha yea, pretty stupid to me that the Vick's co-defendant thread has double the views and posts than this one which is a day older.

[Wither]

Haha yea, pretty stupid to me that the Vick's co-defendant thread has double the views and posts than this one which is a day older.

Well, you can always try to attract more views by starting a discussion on how Vick is overpaid or something.

[Frizzy350]

Plus, many people don't even have the opportunity to go to college. If you're born into a small town with terrible schools and your parents do drugs or are never there for you it's going to be a veritable miracle for you to go to college and graduate.-1

I think we all agree on the fact that athletes are overpaid, but regardless of that, it seems like you guys are taking for granted that the owners will not be spending this extra money for some divine purpose. When you concentrate most of the profits, profits that are well WELL over the operating costs, in a handful of billionaire/millionaires that money is not going to be getting back into the economy anytime soon. - 2

You can boo-hoo all you want over Brandon Marshall and Julius Peppers, and let me re-iterate, I also WHOLLY believe they are ridiculously overpaid, but compared to people like Paul Allen (owner of the Seahawks) who is worth something like 14 BILLION, 14-18 million a year sounds like a paltry sum. Granted, I think an entrepreneur like Allen should make more money Peppers, but having 14 billion in your name is just sickeningly rich, it's embarrassingly rich.

Isn't the owner's lack of transparency on their finances not a clear indication that they're hiding something? - 3

As I said, to me the whole situation is loathsome. Maybe I'm just a hopeless sympathetic with this country as a whole, but I find it disturbing that the owners and the NFLPA are squabbling over the extra millions to be had while everyone around them suffers in a depression.

But they don't care, especially the owners, because if there IS a lockout in 2011, they'll still be making a healthy profit on their investment. Who the f*ck cares if they rob the country of it's favorite sport for a year, all the while steadily increasing their own sick fortunes. Give me a f*cking break... - 4

1. ever hear of working hard in high school and getting a scholarship? lots of jobs (including UPS entry level supervisors) offer to pay for their workers college.

2. considering these billionaires employee thousands of workers and invest all of their money (banks can only insure up to 100k in an account) into stocks and what not, they actually put pretty much all their money into the economy. also, they pay way more taxes.

3. u ever hear of any company willing to just open its books up for people to look at? i know many people who wont even tell what their salary is.

4. theres more football players than superstars. scabs will fill in.

and about what u said earlier about me bitching about the truckers.

a.) i could have done that, but i'd rather actually have an interesting day job.

b.) these guys dont drive trucks all day. because of the unions they are really stuck up about hours (considering its a salary based position). the guys i was talking to only drive about 4 hours a night, and drop the truck off at the next ups hub.

c.) realize this, there are many union workers in the automobile industry making $70 an hour. do u think that has an effect on how shitty american cars are? or how overpriced they are, especially new? if u dropped their wages to something reasonable it would have a substantial impact on the price of cars.

[Wither]

and about what u said earlier about me bitching about the truckers.

a.) i could have done that, but i'd rather actually have an interesting day job.

b.) these guys dont drive trucks all day. because of the unions they are really stuck up about hours (considering its a salary based position). the guys i was talking to only drive about 4 hours a night, and drop the truck off at the next ups hub.

c.) realize this, there are many union workers in the automobile industry making $70 an hour. do u think that has an effect on how shitty american cars are? or how overpriced they are, especially new? if u dropped their wages to something reasonable it would have a substantial impact on the price of cars.

But you weren't talking about just UPS drivers. You insinuated all truck drivers. For some reason, I happen to know a few truck drivers, and they drive their 12 hours, take their rest, then start again. This is negating any way to cut corners around that 12 hour limit, as well.

[Rhys]

1. ever hear of working hard in high school and getting a scholarship? lots of jobs (including UPS entry level supervisors) offer to pay for their workers college.

2. considering these billionaires employee thousands of workers and invest all of their money (banks can only insure up to 100k in an account) into stocks and what not, they actually put pretty much all their money into the economy. also, they pay way more taxes.

3. u ever hear of any company willing to just open its books up for people to look at? i know many people who wont even tell what their salary is.

4. theres more football players than superstars. scabs will fill in.

and about what u said earlier about me bitching about the truckers.

a.) i could have done that, but i'd rather actually have an interesting day job.

b.) these guys dont drive trucks all day. because of the unions they are really stuck up about hours (considering its a salary based position). the guys i was talking to only drive about 4 hours a night, and drop the truck off at the next ups hub.

c.) realize this, there are many union workers in the automobile industry making $70 an hour. do u think that has an effect on how shitty american cars are? or how overpriced they are, especially new? if u dropped their wages to something reasonable it would have a substantial impact on the price of cars.

1.) Yes of course, because that's exactly what I did. But not every kid has that chance. You don't understand, kids born into poverty and violence, with broken homes, moving from school to school continuously can't just suddenly 'work hard' and 'get a scholarship.' That's a generic blanket statement so that you can point your finger at these people and say it's their fault they didn't go to college. In some cases it may be, and they may have had their chances, but I know just as many people that didn't deserve to go to college who did, and f*cked around the whole time, partying, doing drugs, and pissing their time away, just because their mommy and daddy were rich.

2.) Oh yea you're right, my bad. Poor rich people don't know what to do with all their money, they just put it into the stock market because there's no place else for it! Damn right, they should be paying way more taxes.

3.) No, not often. That's why CEO's can fly to Maui in private jets for 3 week long 'business' trips on our federal bailout money. Because, god forbid they open their books, people might have a problem with the way they're allocating their finances. Not to mention that early on in this I suggested that they open their books just to a select few in the NFLPA if they're concerned showing the public might do damage.

4.)Because that'll really appease the fans right?