O-line rankings: Talent and depth rare finds

[Ohio]

I guess the guy just thinks Dwill and Jstew just dodge 4 defensive lineman on every carry because our guys cant block them

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

The list maker has no basis for his picks.

I am ok with the Saints, Patriots, Colts, Browns, and Titans being ahead of us in pass blocking.

I am ok with the Jets and Titans being ahead of us in run blocking.

As poor as Jake Delhomme was he was only sacked 23 times. This list needs to based on blocking only not on the runningbacks or the quarterbacks.

Only two other teams rushed for more yardage than the Panthers last year so based on run blocking I would say we are third. Now it's time for pass blocking. There are 18 teams in front of us and the best way to judge pass blocking is look at how many sacks were taken. Below I listed the teams (and their rank) in front of us that took more sacks than Jake Delhomme.

Baltimore Ravens (3rd)- Joe Flacco took 36 sacks.

Miami Dolphins (5th)- Chad Henne took 26 sacks.

Houston Texans (6th)- Matt Schaub took 25 sacks.

New York Jets (7th)- Mark Sanchez took 26 sacks.

New York Giants (8th)- Eli Manning took 30 sacks.

Dallas Cowboys (10th)- Tony Romo took 34 sacks.

Minnesota Vikings (11th)- Brett Favre took 34 sacks.

Denver Broncos (12th)- Kyle Orton took 29 sacks.

Arizona Cardinals (13th)- Kurt Warner took took 24 sacks.

San Diego Chargers (14th)- Philip Rivers took 25 sacks.

Cincinnati Bengals (15th)- Carson Palmer took 26 sacks.

Philadelphia Eagles (18th)- Donovan McNabb took 35 sacks.

Honestly I think we are anywhere from 3 to 10, it just depends on who is doing the rankings.

[Ohio]

The list maker has no basis for his picks.

I am ok with the Saints, Patriots, Colts, Browns, and Titans being ahead of us in pass blocking.

I am ok with the Jets and Titans being ahead of us in run blocking.

As poor as Jake Delhomme was he was only sacked 23 times. This list needs to based on blocking only not on the runningbacks or the quarterbacks.

Only two other teams rushed for more yardage than the Panthers last year so based on run blocking I would say we are third. Now it's time for pass blocking. There are 18 teams in front of us and the best way to judge pass blocking is look at how many sacks were taken. Below I listed the teams (and their rank) in front of us that took more sacks than Jake Delhomme.

Baltimore Ravens (3rd)- Joe Flacco took 36 sacks.

Miami Dolphins (5th)- Chad Henne took 26 sacks.

Houston Texans (6th)- Matt Schaub took 25 sacks.

New York Jets (7th)- Mark Sanchez took 26 sacks.

New York Giants (8th)- Eli Manning took 30 sacks.

Dallas Cowboys (10th)- Tony Romo took 34 sacks.

Minnesota Vikings (11th)- Brett Favre took 34 sacks.

Denver Broncos (12th)- Kyle Orton took 29 sacks.

Arizona Cardinals (13th)- Kurt Warner took took 24 sacks.

San Diego Chargers (14th)- Philip Rivers took 25 sacks.

Cincinnati Bengals (15th)- Carson Palmer took 26 sacks.

Philadelphia Eagles (18th)- Donovan McNabb took 35 sacks.

Honestly I think we are anywhere from 3 to 10, it just depends on who is doing the rankings.

Delhomme didnt play in 5.5 games though. Also we had Matt Moore played, and you have to add his sack total in as well to be fair.

[SuperMan]

Delhomme didnt play in 5.5 games though. Also we had Matt Moore played, and you have to add his sack total in as well to be fair.

moore was sacked 8 times so our qbs were sacked a total of 31 times.... still less than quite a few on that list the guy is an idiot.

[panthers55]

The list maker has no basis for his picks.

I am ok with the Saints, Patriots, Colts, Browns, and Titans being ahead of us in pass blocking.

I am ok with the Jets and Titans being ahead of us in run blocking.

As poor as Jake Delhomme was he was only sacked 23 times. This list needs to based on blocking only not on the runningbacks or the quarterbacks.

Only two other teams rushed for more yardage than the Panthers last year so based on run blocking I would say we are third. Now it's time for pass blocking. There are 18 teams in front of us and the best way to judge pass blocking is look at how many sacks were taken. Below I listed the teams (and their rank) in front of us that took more sacks than Jake Delhomme.

Baltimore Ravens (3rd)- Joe Flacco took 36 sacks.

Miami Dolphins (5th)- Chad Henne took 26 sacks.

Houston Texans (6th)- Matt Schaub took 25 sacks.

New York Jets (7th)- Mark Sanchez took 26 sacks.

New York Giants (8th)- Eli Manning took 30 sacks.

Dallas Cowboys (10th)- Tony Romo took 34 sacks.

Minnesota Vikings (11th)- Brett Favre took 34 sacks.

Denver Broncos (12th)- Kyle Orton took 29 sacks.

Arizona Cardinals (13th)- Kurt Warner took took 24 sacks.

San Diego Chargers (14th)- Philip Rivers took 25 sacks.

Cincinnati Bengals (15th)- Carson Palmer took 26 sacks.

Philadelphia Eagles (18th)- Donovan McNabb took 35 sacks.

Honestly I think we are anywhere from 3 to 10, it just depends on who is doing the rankings.

You like many others are using quantitative stats not qualitative stats. Quantitative stats look at total sacks for example. Qualitative stats look at number of sacks as a function of number of passing attempts.

Carolina threw the ball 465 times and gave up 31 sacks yielding a sack for every 15 times we threw.

For example, Philly's line gave up 38 sacks on 553 passing attempts for a sack every 14.5 attempts. So they gave up more sacks but still had a better ratio than us. So they would be ranked slightly ahead on that.

If you want to look at run blocking effectiveness you need to look at not total yards but yards per attempt. Problem is that you still can't separate the running backs from the line. For example Stewart was 3rd in yards after contact which indicates that many times he got extra yards on his own regardless of the line blocking.

There are other factors like Pittsburgh's line gets a bum rap because Roethlisburger holds the ball so long that they can't block long enough for him while someone like Brees or Manning get the ball out so fast they never seem to get sacked making the line look better than it is.

Our line is good but not great at this point. We run block fairly well but our pass protection is not that terrific. Our backs don't block that well either. And yeah I have stats to back it up. LOL

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

Delhomme didnt play in 5.5 games though. Also we had Matt Moore played, and you have to add his sack total in as well to be fair.

Thanks I forgot to do that.

Here is the list of sacks taken by teams.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKS_ALLOWED&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

Teams in front of us that gave up more sacks include....

Baltimore Ravens

Miami Dolphins

Dallas Cowboys

Minnesota Vikings

Denver Broncos

Philadelphia Eagles

Teams in front of us that did not rush for more yards than us, actually to make it easier the teams in front of us that did rush for more yards than us.

Tennessee Titans

New York Jets

There are only a few teams that deserve to be in front of the Panthers.

I would put the Titans and Jets in front of us obviously as well as the Saints, Colts, Pats, Chargers, and Texans.

I think a fair rank for the Carolina Panthers is 8th.

[CarolinaPanthers8789]

You like many others are using quantitative stats not qualitative stats. Quantitative stats look at total sacks for example. Qualitative stats look at number of sacks as a function of number of passing attempts.

Carolina threw the ball 465 times and gave up 31 sacks yielding a sack for every 15 times we threw.

For example, Philly's line gave up 38 sacks on 553 passing attempts for a sack every 14.5 attempts. So they gave up more sacks but still had a better ratio than us. So they would be ranked slightly ahead on that.

If you want to look at run blocking effectiveness you need to look at not total yards but yards per attempt. Problem is that you still can't separate the running backs from the line. For example Stewart was 3rd in yards after contact which indicates that many times he got extra yards on his own regardless of the line blocking.

There are other factors like Pittsburgh's line gets a bum rap because Roethlisburger holds the ball so long that they can't block long enough for him while someone like Brees or Manning get the ball out so fast they never seem to get sacked making the line look better than it is.

Our line is good but not great at this point. We run block fairly well but our pass protection is not that terrific. Our backs don't block that well either. And yeah I have stats to back it up. LOL

Our avg. for per run is 4.8. There is only one team a head of us in that category and it is the Titans.

Also our quarterback's weren't hit that much either. Only 8 teams quarterback's were hit less than the Panthers.

[panthers55]

Our avg. for per run is 4.8. There is only one team a head of us in that category and it is the Titans.

Also our quarterback's weren't hit that much either. Only 8 teams quarterback's were hit less than the Panthers.

NFL.com has stats on both things you mentioned. As for quarterbacks hits we were 24th with 62.

In looking at power running stats and rankings- our left side is ranked 4th, our center of the line is ranked 20th and the right side of the line is ranked 21st. So the reality is that Gross and Wharton carry the line and the other guys need to step it up. Likely the low center and right side stats are a big reason Vincent was released last year.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_RIGHT_POWER&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

All relevant stats indicate our line is middle of the pack right now not elite.

[Footballinsiders]

http://www.nfltouchdown.com/carolina-panthers-offensive-line-where-do-they-rank/

[panthers55]

http://www.nfltouchdown.com/carolina-panthers-offensive-line-where-do-they-rank/

Fluff piece using quantitative stats. For example, our quarterback was hit 62 times in 465 attempts for 1 hit for every 7.5 pass attempts. Atlanta had 63 qb hits on 570 attempts which is one hit for every 9 passes attempted. So while they gave up more hits they passed alot more which actually makes their line more effective against the pass using that stat.

A perfect example where using quantitative stats out of context will give you erroneous information. This piece is not better than the article it criticizes and surely doesn't disprove Cole's point.

[monstercat]

Stats are not everything anyway, because not all sacks or QB hits are even the fault of the O-line in the first place. Results are what matter, and the Panthers O-line got results, even after they lost both of their starting tackles and had to go to a back up QB. Does anybody here believe that there are 18 other teams that could have lost that much and actually improve on offense like the Panthers did late in the season?

[panthers55]

Stats are not everything anyway, because not all sacks or QB hits are even the fault of the O-line in the first place. Results are what matter, and the Panthers O-line got results, even after they lost both of their starting tackles and had to go to a back up QB. Does anybody here believe that there are 18 other teams that could have lost that much and actually improve on offense like the Panthers did late in the season?

You are missing the whole point. When you are comparing O lines the thing you have to compare them on is stats. It doesn't account for everything of course and isn't intended to. Obviously the level of competition changes every year based on your schedule so comparing teams with unlike schedules can make a difference. Obviously other offensive pieces like QB, running backs, injuries, play-calling, etc all factor in as well as how well special teams and the defense do in giving the ball to the offense in advantageous situations.

But the reality is that our offensive line was not in the top 10, plain and simple by any qualitative statistical analysis last year. The problems with the offense early had a lot to do with it but that is all part of the game. In 2008 when things went our way, it was. And it might be again this year. It doesn't mean our players aren't talented or don't have the potential to be top 10 but last year they weren't by anymeaningful statistical analysis which frankly is the most objective way to look at things.

And changing quarterbacks, injuries and other factors all do factor into how we ultimately do. This isn't about how good Gross is, or whether Kalil is a probowler. It is about how the offensive line as a unit played last year given all the issues, injuries, etc.

It really shouldn't be so hard to grasp.

[monstercat]

Well, you can rank them on anal retentive stats all you want. I'll rank them on how well they moved the ball and scored points. The simple truth is that the Panthers O-line was brilliant when they put Matt Moore in, and that was without both of their starting tackles.

BTW, these stats, along with how O-linemen are graded, changes from team to team, so who are you to say that your interpretation of the stats is the only one that matters?

[panthers55]

Well, you can rank them on anal retentive stats all you want. I'll rank them on how well they moved the ball and scored points. The simple truth is that the Panthers O-line was brilliant when they put Matt Moore in, and that was without both of their starting tackles.

BTW, these stats, along with how O-linemen are graded, changes from team to team, so who are you to say that your interpretation of the stats is the only one that matters?

Problem is that without a non-biased perspective which stats give you, you can rank them anyway you want but it is meaningless. You have nothing of substance to back up your rankings but your own observation and opinion which really means nothing unless you are a recognized expert on the subject, which you aren't. At least numbers are objective and give you useful information that everyone generally agrees are reliable.

And I am not interpreting the stats but reporting the stats generated by reputable websites who make a living out of these stats and are recognized by the experts as reliable and valid. As opposed to you ranking them on your opinion of what you saw on television. LOL One is objective and defendable while the other is uninformed and totally arbitrary.