Panthers defensive line is starting from scratch

[Rod Butsecks]

(By Charles Chandler, [email protected]) p//p

More...

[pantherclaw]

The Fox broadcasting crew will call them the "no name dline" as the aggressive line surprises opponents.

That will almost be good enough for a chuckle.

[DaveThePanther2008]

I have said all along I believe this DLine is going to surprise alot of people. We have alot of young fresh meat and they are hungry.

Baker is the Baker and is gonna cook us up a winner.. COUNT ON IT.

Go Panthers

[KatsAzz]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but where will the pass rush come from?

In each of their 3 NFL seasons, the 2 starting DT's (Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler) have a combined total of only 1 career sack (Leonard). The only Panthers DT with more than 1 career sack in Derek Landri (3 sacks in 4 seasons), and he may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers starting DE's, Tyler Brayton (5), and Charles Johnson (6), both had career highs for sacks last season, but how much could the absence of Peppers cause their production to decline this season? The only other Panthers DE's with NFL sacks are Everette Brown (2.5 as a rookie in 09), and Hilee Taylor (1 in 2 seasons), but Taylor may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers seem to be hanging their pass rush hopes on the production of 2 rookies, the often injured Greg Hardy (2 foot, and 1 ankle surgery in the last year, causing him to only run a 4.96-40 at the Combine, but a 4.79 Pro Day a month later), and OLB/DE Eric Norwood, along with increased production from Everette Brown, and Charles Johnson (in his 4th season). The question about the production of rookies Hardy (probably the 4th DE), and Norwood (the likely 2nd or 3rd SLB, and 5th DE), is how productive they can be without much playing time?

As for the claim of being faster, only 3 Panthers DE's ran 40's faster than 4.8, Brown (4.73, with an "unofficial" 4.63), Hilee Taylor (4.64, also a Pro Day 4.56), and Norwood (4.71, with an "unofficial" 4.67). No Panther DT runs faster than a 4.96-40 (Landri and Corvey Irvin), and both starting DT's, Leonard (5.28), and Tyler (5.18) are pretty slow.

[scpanther22]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but where will the pass rush come from?

In each of their 3 NFL seasons, the 2 starting DT's (Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler) have a combined total of only 1 career sack (Leonard). The only Panthers DT with more than 1 career sack in Derek Landri (3 sacks in 4 seasons), and he may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers starting DE's, Tyler Brayton (5), and Charles Johnson (6), both had career highs for sacks last season, but how much could the absence of Peppers cause their production to decline this season? The only other Panthers DE's with NFL sacks are Everette Brown (2.5 as a rookie in 09), and Hilee Taylor (1 in 2 seasons), but Taylor may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers seem to be hanging their pass rush hopes on the production of 2 rookies, the often injured Greg Hardy (2 foot, and 1 ankle surgery in the last year, causing him to only run a 4.96-40 at the Combine, but a 4.79 Pro Day a month later), and OLB/DE Eric Norwood, along with increased production from Everette Brown, and Charles Johnson (in his 4th season). The question about the production of rookies Hardy (probably the 4th DE), and Norwood (the likely 2nd or 3rd SLB, and 5th DE), is how productive they can be without much playing time?

As for the claim of being faster, only 3 Panthers DE's ran 40's faster than 4.8, Brown (4.73, with an "unofficial" 4.63), Hilee Taylor (4.64, also a Pro Day 4.56), and Norwood (4.71, with an "unofficial" 4.67). No Panther DT runs faster than a 4.96-40 (Landri and Corvey Irvin), and both starting DT's, Leonard (5.28), and Tyler (5.18) are pretty slow.

This is why preseason will be so interesting.Because I could see us running into a problem with pass rush.

[panthers55]

Most folks are going to drinking the koolaid and honestly what is wrong with that. It won't be long before we find out who is right. June is the time for optimism. I am going to wait for preseason and see what happens. We have certainly seen that while preseason doesn't count in the standings, it was pretty telling last year. I think the same will be true this year as well. It may not presage how we finish the year but it will tell for example if the defense is going to struggle early. Plus we will see if the offense is going to help us win a few until the defense can gel.

[KatsAzz]

A additional factor that may limit DE Greg Hardy's rookie sack numbers is the 45 man game day roster limit. This could force Hardy to be inactive for many games.

The probable 45 man game day roster numbers:

QB - 2 (Moore and Clausen)

RB - 3 (Williams, Stewart, and Sutton)

FB - 1 (Fiammetta)

WR - 4 (Smith, Edwards, Wallace, and Jarrett or LaFell)

TE - 3 (King, Rosario, and Barnidge)

OL - 7 (Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Bernadeau, Otah, Robinson, and Schwartz)

DE - 3 (Brayton, Charles Johnson, and Brown)

DT - 4 (Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Ed Johnson)

LB - 6 (Davis, Beason, Anderson, Connor, Jamar Williams, and Norwood)

CB - 5 (Gamble, Marshall, Munnerlyn, Walker, and probably Stanford)

S - 4 (Godfrey, Martin, Pugh, and Francisco or Hudson whichever makes the cut)

K - 2 (Kasey and someone for kickoffs)

P - 1 (Baker)

LS - 1 (Jansen)

With the likely 8 inactive players are:

QB - Tony Pike

RB - Mike Goodson

WR - Dwayne Jarrett or Brandon LaFell

C/G- Steve Justice

DE - Greg Hardy

DT - the 5th DT (Derek Landri, Nick Hayden, or some late addition)

DE/OLB - Hilee Taylor, or a Special Teams player/LB Jordan Senn)

CB - C. J. Wilson or Brian Witherspoon (whoever makes the final cut)

[pantherclaw]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but where will the pass rush come from?

In each of their 3 NFL seasons, the 2 starting DT's (Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler) have a combined total of only 1 career sack (Leonard). The only Panthers DT with more than 1 career sack in Derek Landri (3 sacks in 4 seasons), and he may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers starting DE's, Tyler Brayton (5), and Charles Johnson (6), both had career highs for sacks last season, but how much could the absence of Peppers cause their production to decline this season? The only other Panthers DE's with NFL sacks are Everette Brown (2.5 as a rookie in 09), and Hilee Taylor (1 in 2 seasons), but Taylor may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers seem to be hanging their pass rush hopes on the production of 2 rookies, the often injured Greg Hardy (2 foot, and 1 ankle surgery in the last year, causing him to only run a 4.96-40 at the Combine, but a 4.79 Pro Day a month later), and OLB/DE Eric Norwood, along with increased production from Everette Brown, and Charles Johnson (in his 4th season). The question about the production of rookies Hardy (probably the 4th DE), and Norwood (the likely 2nd or 3rd SLB, and 5th DE), is how productive they can be without much playing time?

As for the claim of being faster, only 3 Panthers DE's ran 40's faster than 4.8, Brown (4.73, with an "unofficial" 4.63), Hilee Taylor (4.64, also a Pro Day 4.56), and Norwood (4.71, with an "unofficial" 4.67). No Panther DT runs faster than a 4.96-40 (Landri and Corvey Irvin), and both starting DT's, Leonard (5.28), and Tyler (5.18) are pretty slow.

So now you are quoting stats from young players who have yet to have a lot of playing time in the NFL.

You are also quoting 40 times, as if that even matters when it comes to players in their gear, and getting after the passer.

You quote sacks for DT, when quoting sacks is the most over rated thing there is when it comes to defensive tackles.

I guess it will be safe to say that these guys will exceed your expectations, cause you are unflappable about these guys not being able to have an impact.

Continue being a negative nancy. It's your choice, your drum. Beat it however you want.

No, I don't expect them to come out and be the best dline in the league, but having all this youth along the d-line is very exciting to me.

Our dline had been old for years. Rucker, buckner, old. Then we got Kemo, and Lewis, but they got older too. Yes, there is something to be said for vets, but you can't rely upon an aging d-line to continue to perform well. In fact, for years, the performance of our d-line has been down. I'm glad they are making the effort to get younger, and faster. I'm looking forward to seeing how this line comes together and plays on sundays. To sit here in pre-season, and bang the drum you are banging, without having a clue how they will perform (you haven't even seen any pre-season games, let alone a practice worth a damn, cause OTA's isn't where you really see how the lineup is going to be).

You can continue to believe this is a bad time for our defense (even though defense has always been important to our coaching staff), and I will look forward to the changes this brings.

[PantherDude]

A additional factor that may limit DE Greg Hardy's rookie sack numbers is the 45 man game day roster limit. This could force Hardy to be inactive for many games.

The probable 45 man game day roster numbers:

QB - 2 (Moore and Clausen)

RB - 3 (Williams, Stewart, and Sutton)

FB - 1 (Fiammetta)

WR - 4 (Smith, Edwards, Wallace, and Jarrett or LaFell)

TE - 3 (King, Rosario, and Barnidge)

OL - 7 (Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Bernadeau, Otah, Robinson, and Schwartz)

DE - 3 (Brayton, Charles Johnson, and Brown)

DT - 4 (Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Ed Johnson)

LB - 6 (Davis, Beason, Anderson, Connor, Jamar Williams, and Norwood)

CB - 5 (Gamble, Marshall, Munnerlyn, Walker, and probably Stanford)

S - 4 (Godfrey, Martin, Pugh, and Francisco or Hudson whichever makes the cut)

K - 2 (Kasey and someone for kickoffs)

P - 1 (Baker)

LS - 1 (Jansen)

With the likely 8 inactive players are:

QB - Tony Pike

RB - Mike Goodson

WR - Dwayne Jarrett or Brandon LaFell

C/G- Steve Justice

DE - Greg Hardy

DT - the 5th DT (Derek Landri, Nick Hayden, or some late addition)

DE/OLB - Hilee Taylor, or a Special Teams player/LB Jordan Senn)

CB - C. J. Wilson or Brian Witherspoon (whoever makes the final cut)

Wait for the preseason games before you make up your mind there. People should at least be open-minded before the regular season start for once. :banghead:

[DaCityKats]

since pugh can play both db spots, i believe we will keep 4 de's on the 45 man roster.

[party_animal]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but where will the pass rush come from?

In each of their 3 NFL seasons, the 2 starting DT's (Louis Leonard and Tank Tyler) have a combined total of only 1 career sack (Leonard). The only Panthers DT with more than 1 career sack in Derek Landri (3 sacks in 4 seasons), and he may not survive the final roster cut.

These stats are taken out of context given that tyler was miscast as a NT in a 3-4 when he was with the chiefs, and that Leonard has limited playing time thus far in his career.

Also, take a look at the amount of sacks our last "stellar" or star" DT Kemoeatu has in his entire career.

The Panthers starting DE's, Tyler Brayton (5), and Charles Johnson (6), both had career highs for sacks last season, but how much could the absence of Peppers cause their production to decline this season? The only other Panthers DE's with NFL sacks are Everette Brown (2.5 as a rookie in 09), and Hilee Taylor (1 in 2 seasons), but Taylor may not survive the final roster cut.

The Panthers seem to be hanging their pass rush hopes on the production of 2 rookies, the often injured Greg Hardy (2 foot, and 1 ankle surgery in the last year, causing him to only run a 4.96-40 at the Combine, but a 4.79 Pro Day a month later), and OLB/DE Eric Norwood, along with increased production from Everette Brown, and Charles Johnson (in his 4th season). The question about the production of rookies Hardy (probably the 4th DE), and Norwood (the likely 2nd or 3rd SLB, and 5th DE), is how productive they can be without much playing time?

Tyler Brayton and Charles Johnson shared playing time on the field last year. With the subtraction of Julius Peppers, both of those guys are going to see the field more and have the potential to increase their stats from last season.

Peppers being here may/may not be a factor. Because, what's to say that Peppers doesn't have another low single-digit sack total this year because he can't find his motivation? See ... we can play the what if game all day long. It's natural to be worried about a certain position but, to be downright pessimistic about something before you see what the final product is can be foolish. You stated that the Panthers will rely on two rookies to get pressure. That's your opinion, not a fact.

You forgot to mention that we also had 6.5 sacks from positions other than DL last year too.

As for the claim of being faster, only 3 Panthers DE's ran 40's faster than 4.8, Brown (4.73, with an "unofficial" 4.63), Hilee Taylor (4.64, also a Pro Day 4.56), and Norwood (4.71, with an "unofficial" 4.67). No Panther DT runs faster than a 4.96-40 (Landri and Corvey Irvin), and both starting DT's, Leonard (5.28), and Tyler (5.18) are pretty slow.

If our DL is being required to run 40 yards on game day, then there's a big problem. The 40 yard dash for DL and OL is usually worthless.

[CatMan72]

I got a kick out of this:

We lose a little bit maybe talent-wise – maybe, we’ll see – (but) we gain from an effort standpoint...

He went on to say "because we are younger" but he was definatley headed in a certain direction with this quote and then pulled back. LOL

[MadHatter]

A additional factor that may limit DE Greg Hardy's rookie sack numbers is the 45 man game day roster limit. This could force Hardy to be inactive for many games.

The probable 45 man game day roster numbers:

QB - 2 (Moore and Clausen)

RB - 3 (Williams, Stewart, and Sutton)

FB - 1 (Fiammetta)

WR - 4 (Smith, Edwards, Wallace, and Jarrett or LaFell)

TE - 3 (King, Rosario, and Barnidge)

OL - 7 (Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Bernadeau, Otah, Robinson, and Schwartz)

DE - 3 (Brayton, Charles Johnson, and Brown)

DT - 4 (Tyler, Leonard, Irvin, and Ed Johnson)

LB - 6 (Davis, Beason, Anderson, Connor, Jamar Williams, and Norwood)

CB - 5 (Gamble, Marshall, Munnerlyn, Walker, and probably Stanford)

S - 4 (Godfrey, Martin, Pugh, and Francisco or Hudson whichever makes the cut)

K - 2 (Kasey and someone for kickoffs)

P - 1 (Baker)

LS - 1 (Jansen)

With the likely 8 inactive players are:

QB - Tony Pike

RB - Mike Goodson

WR - Dwayne Jarrett or Brandon LaFell

C/G- Steve Justice

DE - Greg Hardy

DT - the 5th DT (Derek Landri, Nick Hayden, or some late addition)

DE/OLB - Hilee Taylor, or a Special Teams player/LB Jordan Senn)

CB - C. J. Wilson or Brian Witherspoon (whoever makes the final cut)

I do not see any way that we only dress 3 DE's during the season.

[GreatPoupon]

I do not see any way that we only dress 3 DE's during the season.

dont we usually dress four CB's as well?