Marty Hurney is available…

[panther4life]

On 2/17/2025 at 9:39 PM, MHS831 said:

Isn't the first pick the easiest?  He chose positions, as a general rule, that were generally successful as rookies because the position did not take time to master--RBs, LBs, etc.  I was never a fan--let's not forget, he tried to trade up with the Rams to get the 33rd pick so he could take Clausen.  And he took Clausen after 2 teams, KC and Minn, who were desperate for a QB passed on Clausen--in rounds one and then again in round 2.  That same draft, he moved up to get Armanti Edwards....He traded away first round picks to get Otah and Everette Brown.  First round magic? 

It’s a crapshoot after the first round. If the players who outperform 1st round picks fall past the 1st round, that means the teams got lucky, especially if their higher picks didn’t work out. 

If you can’t get the first round right then you’re not a great GM. 
 

Also he took plenty of positions outside LB,RB. And when he did take LB’s they were the best at their position until retirement.
 

DE-Peppers,Burns,LT-Gross,CB-Gamble,DT-Brown, QB-Newton, RT-Otah

6 positions.7 players not taken at LB and RB in 11 first round selections he made for us.

Lastly I’ve had the privilege of speaking with former players, including those who were on the 2015 Roster. They say all the credit goes to him and that Gettleman was a hated man in that building. If you ever get the chance to speak with any of them,they will gladly tell you themselves.
 

All that said I don’t have any desire to bring him back but this particular topic has always annoyed me with that hate he receives when he actually did so much good for us under 2 owners who actually handcuffed him and forced errors on him that he fell on the sword for.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:40 PM by panther4life

[CRA]

I give him one job.  First round pick.  It's would be money well spent.  But that's it.  Have his key card not work after that. 

[frankw]

23 minutes ago, panther4life said:

It’s a crapshoot after the first round. If the players who outperform 1st round picks fall past the 1st round, that means the teams got lucky, especially if their higher picks didn’t work out. 

If you can’t get the first round right then you’re not a great GM. 
 

Also he took plenty of positions outside LB,RB. And when he did take LB’s they were the best at their position until retirement.
 

DE-Peppers,Burns,LT-Gross,CB-Gamble,DT-Brown, QB-Newton, RT-Otah

6 positions.7 players not taken at LB and RB in 11 first round selections he made for us.

Lastly I’ve had the privilege of speaking with former players, including those who were on the 2015 Roster. They say all the credit goes to him and that Gettleman was a hated man in that building. If you ever get the chance to speak with any of them,they will gladly tell you themselves.
 

All that said I don’t have any desire to bring him back but this particular topic has always annoyed me with that hate he receives when he actually did so much good for us under 2 owners who actually handcuffed him and forced errors on him that he fell on the sword for.

Hurney undoubtedly did some good for us but man there was so much bad. And supposedly and luckily for us he unsuccessfully tried to trade up for Jimmy Clausen.

I will agree Gettleman got the Panthers to the Super Bowl with a core of Hurney players though. Some of us here were saying that at the time. And then Gettleman's corresponding moves following that loss pretty much slammed our window shut from there. At the time I believe we were the only team to win 15 or more games and go to a Super Bowl and then have a losing record the following season.

Anyways it remains to be seen how Dan Morgan will be at drafting in the later rounds from here but we absolutely need to nail this years first round pick first and foremost and no we are not going to do that trading down for chump change like some people are clamoring for.

Edited Wednesday at 04:03 PM by frankw

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, panther4life said:

It’s a crapshoot after the first round. If the players who outperform 1st round picks fall past the 1st round, that means the teams got lucky, especially if their higher picks didn’t work out. 

If you can’t get the first round right then you’re not a great GM. 
 

Also he took plenty of positions outside LB,RB. And when he did take LB’s they were the best at their position until retirement.
 

DE-Peppers,Burns,LT-Gross,CB-Gamble,DT-Brown, QB-Newton, RT-Otah

6 positions.7 players not taken at LB and RB in 11 first round selections he made for us.

Lastly I’ve had the privilege of speaking with former players, including those who were on the 2015 Roster. They say all the credit goes to him and that Gettleman was a hated man in that building. If you ever get the chance to speak with any of them,they will gladly tell you themselves.
 

All that said I don’t have any desire to bring him back but this particular topic has always annoyed me with that hate he receives when he actually did so much good for us under 2 owners who actually handcuffed him and forced errors on him that he fell on the sword for.

 

 

 

I see where you can make the argument that he was not that bad, but when he was not influence by a coach--the Clausen draft--when Fox was a Lame Duck as the team anticipated the draft, he was pretty much empowered without practical input.  I realize that he had scouts, but he did not have a vision.   He had already traded away the first rounder the year before, and when Clausen was there after the first round, it later came out that he tried to trade up to #33 with the Rams to get him, probably dealing away another first rounder.  When KC and Minnesota--both desperate for QBs--passed on Clausen in the second round, I figured that was a red flag--what did they know?  Of course, we drafted Clausen, and then Lafell in the third round, and then I read a story that the Colts bluffed Hurney into moving up to take Armanti Edwards so convince him to draft a player they did not want.  The Colts source joked that there was a run on WRs and they were hoping to get one to fall to them so they put out the word that they were interested in Armanti Edwards.  It is believed that they wanted Emanuel Sanders or Eric Decker, but they were taken before the Panther pick.  Having already taken a WR in the third round, it seemed unlikely that they would pick another, so they forgot about it. Most teams had a much lower grade (7th round) on Edwards.  When it was announced that Hurney took Edwards, they laughed.  Nobody can be sure if their pressure worked, but the reveal here is that they laughed at him (if true--I doubt it, to be honest).   In the fourth round, he picked Eric Norwood, a tweener who did not fit the 4-3.  

I get that was one draft, but it was a demonstration of Hurney without parental controls.  I went to Spartanburg that summer, and Fox was being openly sarcastic.  He had Clausen at #3 QB and he made a sarcastic comment I could easily hear about Armanti when he dropped a jugs machine punt.  Having talked to Fox at OTAs before, I really liked him and felt that he was a true, old school football guy.  

And yes, I heard they hated Gettlemen.  I see why.  I think players retired because of him.

To me, the bigger question and picture is this:  You have hours of tape of these players playing football in college against future NFL players.  You weigh them, you measure them, you time them, you interview them, and you work them out.  

Why is the first round a coin toss?  Why is the second round a 75% chance of failure?  It makes no sense to me.  

I appreciate your admiration for Hurney and since we do not see GMs as a whole group but an isolated situation in most cases, it is easy to attribute failure to the man who picks in the draft when the majority of players drafted on all teams fail.  He sealed his fate when he started dealing first rounders away.  That was his strength. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:00 PM by MHS831

[Waldo]

Dude has been fired twice here and neither was soon enough.

Who was the expert in the room that gave Tepper the blessing on Rhule? Walked into a lockerroom built for a playoff appearance, got rid of the probowl kicker and then proceeded to overseen the transition to a team that hasn't had a winning season since? Greg freaking Little. That's just his most recent stuff here without dipping into his first stint for more ammo.

Might as well start talking about DG or Fritters again. Just do something else at this point, anything else really.

[MHS831]

27 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Dude has been fired twice here and neither was soon enough.

Who was the expert in the room that gave Tepper the blessing on Rhule? Walked into a lockerroom built for a playoff appearance, got rid of the probowl kicker and then proceeded to overseen the transition to a team that hasn't had a winning season since? Greg freaking Little. That's just his most recent stuff here without dipping into his first stint for more ammo.

Might as well start talking about DG or Fritters again. Just do something else at this point, anything else really.

In my view, Fitterer was the worst.  I can't think of a good decision he ever made.  In free agency, deplorable.  Drafting?  yikes. He took Horn over Surtain, re-signed Donte Jackson to a big deal, and signed Safties (low hanging fruit) Woods and Bell.  beyond that?  To me, nothing says it better than this:  "The Rams offered two future first-round picks — in 2024 and ’25 — plus a third in ’23 for Burns, who was in the midst of a career-best, 12 1/2-sack season." Where would we be now had that deal been made?

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 hours ago, panther4life said:

It’s a crapshoot after the first round. If the players who outperform 1st round picks fall past the 1st round, that means the teams got lucky, especially if their higher picks didn’t work out. 

If you can’t get the first round right then you’re not a great GM. 
 

Also he took plenty of positions outside LB,RB. And when he did take LB’s they were the best at their position until retirement.
 

DE-Peppers,Burns,LT-Gross,CB-Gamble,DT-Brown, QB-Newton, RT-Otah

6 positions.7 players not taken at LB and RB in 11 first round selections he made for us.

Lastly I’ve had the privilege of speaking with former players, including those who were on the 2015 Roster. They say all the credit goes to him and that Gettleman was a hated man in that building. If you ever get the chance to speak with any of them,they will gladly tell you themselves.
 

All that said I don’t have any desire to bring him back but this particular topic has always annoyed me with that hate he receives when he actually did so much good for us under 2 owners who actually handcuffed him and forced errors on him that he fell on the sword for.

 

 

 

Peppers - The consensus #1 and only didn't go there because the Texans needed a QB and took Carr. He should have been fired if he didn't make this pick. 

Burns - Top rated pass rusher available along with Sweat. If Burns hadn't been available, the pick would have been Greg Little. Who we traded up to get only to trade away for a 7th rounder.  

Gross - missed draft pick by the Vikings and we literally ran to the podium to take him. This one was too easy. 

Gamble - Good pick. CBs aren't a guarantee in the 1st. 

Brown - Top rated interior defensive lineman. 

Cam - I know there was a lot of controversy at the time between the top 3, but I never thought there was. Cam was far and above Gabbert and Locker both. He had "it".

Otah - Road grading tackle that we traded up for that didn't even play for 2 full seasons. I'd call that a bust

The 1st 3 of those picks were so easy that a Huddler could have made them. Cam wasn't a hard choice either IMO between those 3. 

Using those picks to suggest he was some kind of guru in the 1st really doesn't establish it for me anyway. All it really says to me is he didn't screw up the obvious. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

In my view, Fitterer was the worst.  I can't think of a good decision he ever made.  In free agency, deplorable.  Drafting?  yikes. He took Horn over Surtain, re-signed Donte Jackson to a big deal, and signed Safties (low hanging fruit) Woods and Bell.  beyond that?  To me, nothing says it better than this:  "The Rams offered two future first-round picks — in 2024 and ’25 — plus a third in ’23 for Burns, who was in the midst of a career-best, 12 1/2-sack season." Where would we be now had that deal been made?

I had seen a 23' 2nd and 1sts in 24' and 25'. If we had made the trade, this is what I think we could have reasonably expected. 

23' 1st (9th) 24 1st Rams 25' 1st Rams for 23 1st overall (Bryce)

24' 1st overall traded for top 10 24' 1st, 25 1st, 25 2nd (depending on how far move up, possible 1st), 26 2nd (or player). 

We would have kept all our picks, had an extra 2nd in 23', still had DJ Moore and ended up with a boatload of picks for an actual rebuild of the team. I know some people consider future 1sts pretty invaluable, but when the time comes, you can trade them for more top end picks if the pick is high enough. 

I have no idea how Fitts turned down that trade. That was a king's ransom for a QB pressure specialist that can't seal an edge and had never taken over a game. 

[Waldo]

40 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

In my view, Fitterer was the worst.  I can't think of a good decision he ever made.  In free agency, deplorable.  Drafting?  yikes. He took Horn over Surtain, re-signed Donte Jackson to a big deal, and signed Safties (low hanging fruit) Woods and Bell.  beyond that?  To me, nothing says it better than this:  "The Rams offered two future first-round picks — in 2024 and ’25 — plus a third in ’23 for Burns, who was in the midst of a career-best, 12 1/2-sack season." Where would we be now had that deal been made?

I agree with that. I don't get any desire to repeat with any of them tho. DG built teams that won the most but he was so flawed too. Just no to all of them.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

5 hours ago, toldozer said:

Compare his full drafts to Rhule/shitterer. Im not saying he was good, I'm just saying it can always be worse.

No arguments from me.  That regime would have made out better if they had outsourced the meatballs and let Rhules wife run the draft. 

[Basbear]

I honestly could not take a 3rd herniay trip.

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

In my view, Fitterer was the worst.  I can't think of a good decision he ever made.  In free agency, deplorable.  Drafting?  yikes. He took Horn over Surtain, re-signed Donte Jackson to a big deal, and signed Safties (low hanging fruit) Woods and Bell.  beyond that?  To me, nothing says it better than this:  "The Rams offered two future first-round picks — in 2024 and ’25 — plus a third in ’23 for Burns, who was in the midst of a career-best, 12 1/2-sack season." Where would we be now had that deal been made?

Fitterer put the Hurney vs. Gettleman discussion so far in the rear view that argument should never come up again.

Fitterer was steadily climbing to a Matt Millen level of suckitude.

Edited Thursday at 01:29 AM by kungfoodude

[Davidson Deac II]

11 hours ago, panther4life said:

It’s a crapshoot after the first round. If the players who outperform 1st round picks fall past the 1st round, that means the teams got lucky, especially if their higher picks didn’t work out. 

If you can’t get the first round right then you’re not a great GM. 
 

Also he took plenty of positions outside LB,RB. And when he did take LB’s they were the best at their position until retirement.
 

DE-Peppers,Burns,LT-Gross,CB-Gamble,DT-Brown, QB-Newton, RT-Otah

6 positions.7 players not taken at LB and RB in 11 first round selections he made for us.

Lastly I’ve had the privilege of speaking with former players, including those who were on the 2015 Roster. They say all the credit goes to him and that Gettleman was a hated man in that building. If you ever get the chance to speak with any of them,they will gladly tell you themselves.
 

All that said I don’t have any desire to bring him back but this particular topic has always annoyed me with that hate he receives when he actually did so much good for us under 2 owners who actually handcuffed him and forced errors on him that he fell on the sword for.

 

 

 

Its a crapshoot in the first round as well.  

Well, maybe not a crapshoot, but the failure rate of first round picks is higher than most believe.  I read that less than half of first round picks are with the team they started with after four years, most of them gone because they didn't live up to first round expectations.  

[Verge]

Best GM in Carolina Panthers history unfortunately