"Objective" Position Battle Panthers vs Saint

[Fiz]

also in a vacuum there aren't many saints players that stand out and blow your mind relative to the rest of the players in the league at their position.

it's just that on offense, they play in an amazing system with a top five QB in the league.

on defense, williams is an amazing coach.

[Mr ocho nueve]

also in a vacuum there aren't many saints players that stand out and blow your mind relative to the rest of the players in the league at their position.

it's just that on offense, they play in an amazing system with a top five QB in the league.

on defense, williams is an amazing coach.

True. I think that Saints are basically a bunch of players that are coached very well, with an amazing qb to secure the deal. If you take away one coach, or Brees, they fall apart, obviously.

[SorthNarolina]

I have a problem with your use of "unknown". if its truly unknown, then how can you declare one better than the other? thats just like Jamie Duke--because he doesn't know who Matt Moore is the Panthers are screwed. im not trying to be cynical, but once again, until I see these guys play, I can't judge one way or the other

The saints are better vs "unkown" because they have established guys at the position. It's not fair to say we're better based on predictions.

[Dpantherman]

The saints are better vs "unkown" because they have established guys at the position. It's not fair to say we're better based on predictions.

see thats where I disagree. if they are unknown than how does anyone know if they are better or not. its all an assumption. It may not be fair to say we are better, but its also unfair to say we are worse based on assumptions

[BF91]

see thats where I disagree. if they are unknown than how does anyone know if they are better or not. its all an assumption. It may not be fair to say we are better, but its also unfair to say we are worse based on assumptions

I think its safe to say that Moore/Clausen (just covering my bases with Clausen) aren't as good as Drew Brees.

[koolkatluke]

see thats where I disagree. if they are unknown than how does anyone know if they are better or not. its all an assumption. It may not be fair to say we are better, but its also unfair to say we are worse based on assumptions

The "Known" is always better then the "unknown" when your doing any kind of

comparison.

Example: Will Smith (the known) had 13 sacks last year.

EB and CJ (the unknown) while we don't know what they can do starting the whole season. It would have too be the best case scenario for them too reach them numbers.

[seandroog]

I had posted this about a conversation regarding the falcons comparison. the topic changed to the saints and then to corner backs on the saints and panthers.

Hi, So i'm a member of SR.com, new to this forum. I'm not trying to troll, just wanna discuss some NFC south. After all, I think that we can all agree we're in one of the better divisions in football right? Before I start I just wanna say that one of my best friends is a Panther fan, so using the "I'm not racist, I have friends that are..." logic here I go:

So yes, we had issues all around on defense. Mostly in the running game. Injuries made our starting DT position a revolving door and OLB has always been a weekness for us since ex panther Sam Mills led the best LB corp of all time, the dome patrol. But secondary is not a problem on our team. Jabari greer is quickly becoming a top 5 corner and porter isn't nearly the shutdown but he makes big plays (against favre and manning). When those two were hurt Sharper's age was exposed; he's a ball hawker, but he no longer has the quickness to cover on his own.

When Greer and Porter were hurt we had Gay (a career backup witht he patriots and us with about a million rings lol), Malcom Jenkins (a very talented but slow futer FS) and were pulling Mike Mckenzie and Chris Mcallister from the street (yeah they'er not with a team now).

Jabari Greer will become a household name soon. He was the guy who stopped TO from having a catch and ending his insane streak. He's a true shut down corner.

But if we need to compare stats, Jabari Greer. only 46.9% of the times Jabari greer was thrown at in coverage was that pass caught last year. That's 4th in the entire NFL (revis was first of course). The overall QB rating against him was 52.3 which is 6th in the nfl. He only allowed 1 TD all year when he was in coverage.

Tracy porter allowed no TD's when he was in coverage. he's also in the top 10 of opponent QB rating. He's around 23rd of percentage caught against him. that's pretty good numbers for a guy who is getting more balls thrown his side with Greer being a shutdown corner.

Link: http://profootballfocus.com/by_posit...=25&numgames=1

The problem is beyond that. Gay does an admirable job but nothign special. Malcom Jenkins is a FS. but we did draft a CB and with how we blitz he will be important. I truly believe we have one of the better CB tandems in football.

So off topic i'm sure but just off the top of my head (admittedly with no stats to backup) I would have to say about the saints players against Carolina:

QB - Saints (i think he's the best in the NFL)

RB - Carolina (I love pierre but you guys use RB much better than we do)

WR - Saints (I just think we're incredibly deep)

TE - Saints (shockey needs to stay off the cough medicine though)

FB - Saints (and i say this mostly because Heath evens is a passing threat. I'm not even sure if you guys still have hoover, he was a great blocker)

T - our RT went to the probowl and LT also went to the probowl (shhhh he's overrated but will you give us a first round pick for him?) so I'm not gonna guess here.

G - Saints Jhari evans is probably the best guard in football, and he's young

C - Panthers - idk who you guys have but trust me he's better

DL - With you guys losing peppers there's question marks and we only upgraded by getting rid of Charles Grant and getting alex brown so i would have to go sainst (yes homer i know)

LB - Yeah vilma is great in coverage but I have to go carolina here

S - Not sure who you guys have but sharper will probably age fast and Jenkins is not ready yet so won't comment.

CB - Saints, above reasons

K - I want to go push here, but leaning panthers. Hartley made huge kicks and was great last year but I feel like he's too young and kickers can go off the handle. Kasay has made me cry so many times

P - Push - Morestead is playing great on kickoffs also

Sorry for the lengthy post but wanted to get off on the right foot. Hopefully we can discuss with a level head. But if you guys think I'm really trolling feel free to delete me.

[Dpantherman]

The "Known" is always better then the "unknown" when your doing any kind of

comparison.

Example: Will Smith (the known) had 13 sacks last year.

EB and CJ (the unknown) while we don't know what they can do starting the whole season. It would have too be the best case scenario for them too reach them numbers.

why? theres no guarantee that Will Smith will repeat his success. my point is, we don't know what they can do as starters. no one has seen them full time. also that is comparing a guy who starts and another who comes off the bench. and look at Johnson's numbers, they aren't far from Smith's early numbers.

[seandroog]

also before all the butthurt saints fans start mewling about porter and greer, keep in mind neither one can stay healthy and it doesn't mean poo if they can only play 8 games a year.

Well I'm a saints fan so obviously I disagree. Greer had a misdiagnosed sports hernia so he was out a long longer than he should have been but I do think that Porter's injuries are becoming a concern. Both guys were fully healthy for the playoffs though, and I'll put up with them being hurt on and off through the season if they're healthy in the playoffs and play as exceptional as they did last year.

We also drafted a guy in the first round so he'll give us much better depth at the position in case of injuries.

[seandroog]

why? theres no guarantee that Will Smith will repeat his success. my point is, we don't know what they can do as starters. no one has seen them full time. also that is comparing a guy who starts and another who comes off the bench. and look at Johnson's numbers, they aren't far from Smith's early numbers.

Well I agree, Will smith only had double digit sacks one other time in his 6 year career. The guy we just cut (charles grant) had a huge drop off too. But then I'm hoping that gregg williams had that much of an impact on will smith.

There's no way of telling if smith can repeat that though, I honestly doubt it.

[Fiz]

It's not like Greer has been a model of health throughout his career.

Also lol draft. How's Jenkins working out

[Dpantherman]

Johnson has 4 career starts btw. for his numbers, he looks pretty good to me. Im not counting him out

[Dpantherman]

It's not like Greer has been a model of health throughout his career.

Also lol draft. How's Jenkins working out

Payton says hes so versatile, hes moving him to FS....

[seandroog]

It's not like Greer has been a model of health throughout his career.

Also lol draft. How's Jenkins working out

Well Porter was the starter before we drafted Jenkins and Greer came in and established himself as the clear number 1. Plus I think most people thought Jenkins was a FS, no matter how much Jenkins wants to fight it that's his future.

Greer really only started the last few years, the last two years he's had injury problems but he's played every game before that. Obviously injury is always a concern but Greer was ready to go in the playoffs and had a great year when he did play.