I don't see why we can't make the playoffs this year.

[Cyberjag]

I don't buy the "weren't good enough to start with us last year" argument that everyone likes to throw out there. You do realize who our coach is? Mr. "he gives us the best chance to win" Fox. Fox has repeatedly and without fail started an aging vet over the talented youngster. You really want to tell me that Matt Moore wasn't a better option than Jake for pretty much all of last season. Ohh right, he wasn't good enough to start then so he's obviously not now.

yeah, Fox would've started Dan Morgan over Jon Beason if he would've been healthy. And the only reason Beason saw playing time at MLB was because Morgan was injured... which is why James Anderson and Dan Connor got a chance to play last season... then Fox realized that these two guys have learned enough now that they can be starters. It's not always "start an aging vet" over a younger player... sometimes he actually evaluates his players... and sometimes he's wrong, it happens. He's only human...

And IMO, John Fox is one of the best coaches in the league right now, I don't care what anyone says. There's only two or three coaches in the league right now that I'd want instead of him... one's retired, one just got a new job in Washington, and the other will never leave New England. Well... I would definitely consider Lezlie Frazier... but other than that...

Actually, in Beason's rookie year Fox started Beason and Morgan side-by-side, with Diggs on the bench. When Morgan got injured, Beason slid over to the middle and that was that.

When they took Gamble they actually dumped both CBs from the previous year and started him.

They had several veteran safeties on the roster, but started Godfrey when Minter retired.

They have consistently put rookies on the field in favor of veterans. It's just not the rookies of a few loud posters, which is why they get this rep.

I think you were taking my statement a little far. I obviously didn't mean this for every player on the team. If you take every statement so literal I'm willing to bet you walk around in life thoroughly confused all the time. I was simply stating that giving the option, John Fox, has and will always start a vet over a young talent, even if the talent is out preforming the vet in practice.

Foster over Deangelo

Delhomme over Moore

Harris over Godfrey/Martin

the list goes on, its been a constant with him.

I do agree that Fox is one of the best coaches in the league, but this is a fault he has, he is imminently loyal to his veterans.

Williams couldn't block his rookie year, something he's acknowledged and the reason Foster started. He's improved every year, but didn't really break out until they drafted Stewart in the offseason where he was inspired by a talk he had with Vinny T.

Delhomme looked miles better than Moore in the preseason, and if McCown wasn't on IR he would have been the starter late last year. That's not because of Fox, it's because of Moore. And it's why some people aren't too sure he'll be great this eyar.

Harris over Godfrey/Martin? Are you serious? Based on what?

If the list goes on, how about going on with it?

[Lumps]

Exactly. We will be a worse team without Delhomme, Peppers slacking off, and old ass FB with injures and a bunch of rotational guys. What ever will we do with another WR, TD back at lineback , a young DE with heart along with young guys who actually want to play.

Delhomme looked miles better than Moore in the preseason, and if McCown wasn't on IR he would have been the starter late last year.

Interesting. How did Jake look in the real season 5 games in? Yet Fox started him. Everyone knows it takes Fox a little extra time to come around.

[Floppin]

Actually, in Beason's rookie year Fox started Beason and Morgan side-by-side, with Diggs on the bench. When Morgan got injured, Beason slid over to the middle and that was that.

When they took Gamble they actually dumped both CBs from the previous year and started him.

They had several veteran safeties on the roster, but started Godfrey when Minter retired.

They have consistently put rookies on the field in favor of veterans. It's just not the rookies of a few loud posters, which is why they get this rep.

Williams couldn't block his rookie year, something he's acknowledged and the reason Foster started. He's improved every year, but didn't really break out until they drafted Stewart in the offseason where he was inspired by a talk he had with Vinny T.

Delhomme looked miles better than Moore in the preseason, and if McCown wasn't on IR he would have been the starter late last year. That's not because of Fox, it's because of Moore. And it's why some people aren't too sure he'll be great this eyar.

Harris over Godfrey/Martin? Are you serious? Based on what?

If the list goes on, how about going on with it?

The only reason that rookies have started is because of FO moves to release these veterans. If these veterans are on the team at the start of the season they will start, and even if they struggle they will continue to start until the end of the season when the FO makes a move and releases them. Then Fox is forced to play some young talent. The only reason McCown was ahead on the depth chart is because they didn't trust an unproven young talent so instead they placed an NFL game experienced proven loser ahead of him for "veteran's security" sake

[cookinbrak]

I was simply stating that giving the option, John Fox, has and will always start a vet over a young talent, even if the talent is out preforming the vet in practice.

Harris over Godfrey/Martin

I do agree that Fox is one of the best coaches in the league, but this is a fault he has, he is imminently loyal to his veterans.

There was a reason Harris was the starter. And the reason he got traded has nothing to do with payroll or the talent behind him.

[Floppin]

I liked Harris as a starter, I liked him as a leader and respect all the things he did while he was here. He was a pass coverage liability, last year especially, surely you can see that.

[Snake]

I agree floppin. Finally someone upstairs is forcing him to open up his traditional mind with some young talent. He is in his last year so I doubt all these new guys were his idea. Fox may not like it but he might have to actually coach a team and actually coach QB skills instead of intangibles. I think he'll do fine.

I am not a Fox hater, I think he is great but no coach is perfect.

I think the Jake Delhomme ordeal caused the mass exodus of older players where we had younger ones waiting behind them. I think at the end of the season Richardson told Fox what the deal was and thats why they allowed him to seek other employment if he was not happy with what was going on. Richardson has taken more control over this organization then ever before.

[pantherclaw]

It would appear on the surface that Moore is not the guy - at least that's the signal the Panthers have cureently sent. With Moore being a restricted free agent and with little to no playing time under his belt, the Panthers could have signed him to a long term deal in the neighborhood of 4-6 million. Instead, they sign him to a 1-year deal worth about 3.2 million, draft not 1 but 2 QB's whose combined salary will be less than what it will take to sign Moore to an extension now and they have a lame duck coach.

All of this happened after they sent Delhomme packing. The Panthers are clearly not committed to Moore at this time and IMO, not only his play but his future contract demands will warrant him being benched sooner than later.

If the Panthers have no intention of commiting to Moore, which it is apparent at this time they do not, then look for Pike/Clausen to get maximum playing time to determine who the face of the franchise will be in 2011 and beyond.

So if you were hurney, you would have signed moore to a long term contract without even a full season of starting, and not brought in any more talent at all at the qb position, backup or otherwise. Sorry, you fail. Am grateful you don't run the team.

[pantherclaw]

Fox and Hurney have been drafting these guys, and aquiring others in trade, building the team. Now that they have been groomed and coached up, it is richardsons decision to play them?

The some strong poo y'all are drinking/smoking.

[Future of the Funchise]

Hey... Ok I get it now. It's another one of those threads.

[Cyberjag]

How did Jake look in the real season 5 games in? Yet Fox started him. Everyone knows it takes Fox a little extra time to come around.

I don't agree with that. Moore was third on the depth chart, and our second QB got injured. And Jake had a strong history with the club--he didn't lose the locker room at all. Moore was good as a rookie, but not great, and he had disappointed the staff every time he had the opportunity since then. I think it's great that he did so well, but at the same time you need to acknowledge that having a defense give up less than 10 points a game makes it easy to go 4-1 (with the 1 being the time they gave up 20 to the Pats). And if Moore had flopped everyone would be crucifying Fox for not having a backup QB, right?

Fox has been the coach here for eight years. In that time he's started Foster over Williams, and Delhomme over Moore (both decisions that probably would have been made by 3/4 of the coaches around the league). He also went with Morgan longer than he should have, and maybe Rucker too (although there wasn't anyone behind him). Is there anything I'm missing here? What other players has he stuck with while the internet community insisted he move on? In that time he's also started a ton of rookies, and won more games than all but a small handfull of other coaches.

So where is the pattern? What do you have outside of the names I just mentioned? If he takes too much time to come around, to what should he come around to now?

I'm serious, act like I became a Panther fan yesterday and give me a history of the franchise that suggests you're even close to the truth here.

[MadHatter]

It would appear on the surface that Moore is not the guy - at least that's the signal the Panthers have cureently sent. With Moore being a restricted free agent and with little to no playing time under his belt, the Panthers could have signed him to a long term deal in the neighborhood of 4-6 million. Instead, they sign him to a 1-year deal worth about 3.2 million, draft not 1 but 2 QB's whose combined salary will be less than what it will take to sign Moore to an extension now and they have a lame duck coach.

All of this happened after they sent Delhomme packing. The Panthers are clearly not committed to Moore at this time and IMO, not only his play but his future contract demands will warrant him being benched sooner than later.

If the Panthers have no intention of commiting to Moore, which it is apparent at this time they do not, then look for Pike/Clausen to get maximum playing time to determine who the face of the franchise will be in 2011 and beyond.

Are you just trying to be funny...or are you truly the byproduct of bad genes?

Please leave.

[Lumps]

Fox has been the coach here for eight years. In that time he's started Foster over Williams, and Delhomme over Moore (both decisions that probably would have been made by 3/4 of the coaches around the league). He also went with Morgan longer than he should have, and maybe Rucker too (although there wasn't anyone behind him). Is there anything I'm missing here? What other players has he stuck with while the internet community insisted he move on? In that time he's also started a ton of rookies, and won more games than all but a small handfull of other coaches.

So where is the pattern? What do you have outside of the names I just mentioned? If he takes too much time to come around, to what should he come around to now?

You answered your own question. Except this person and this person who has he waited on....I mean come on now really? He is pretty much forced to come around ( take a chance) at this point form multiple angles. Unless he decided to coach this year differently with a bunch of rookies and young guys while also all of a sudden deciding he could do it with half the year's salary than last years' and convinced the FO that is what they all should do. But he didn't, the FO is really testing Foxs' worth this year.

But to be clear you guys are saying Fox prefers young talent over Vets right? and you guys probably believe Jake actually broke his finger too..

[monstercat]

Fox has played plenty of rookies since he's been here. Not all of them have started, but many of them have gotten significant playing time as rookies when they have earned it.

Every good NFL HC will go with a proven vet over a rookie every single time unless the rookie is obviously better in every aspect of the game. There is a reason why Tom Brady didn't get to play until Bledsoe got hurt.

[rmoneyg35]

might seem like it would be easy but we have unproven players. Plus you play the games because what is on paper doesnt always translate to the field. Injuries, Luck, mistakes and penalties are always unpredictable and plays a big factor in winning. we also have two other teams are proven to be winners.